An interview with Jean-Claude Parrot “Govemment’s attack on the postal worker Is in line with their plans for the rest of Canadian workers’ The following interview was given to the Tribune on July 11, 1978 in Ottawa by Jean-Claude Parrot, president of the Canadian Union of Postal Workers. Tribune: CUPW has supported the idea of turning the Post Office into a Crown Corporation for some time and is currently in- volved in an extensive campaign to promote the idea. Why? Parrot: Under a Crown Corpo- ration we could negotiate directly with the Post Office Department ‘under the regulations of the Canadian Labor Code. This al- lows two things: a better way to resolve the day-to-day problems of Post Office operations as well as giving management the author- ity to-take responsibility for the actual administration of the ser- vice. I should add that 17 gov- ernment studies have recom- mended the same thing. It.is the only way to cut the amazing amount of red tape we have t deal with now. Tribune: The Post Office has been run very much like a military establishment in the past. I’m sure you’d agree that manage- ment has consistently played a ___ $trong anti-labor role. Parrot: Yes, but there’s more -to it than that. There are too many people in the Post Office. who want to protect their little king- doms. A lot of incompetent man- agers who don’t use the resources that already exist to improve the postal service. In fact, at one time the best way to become a super- visor was to be a lazy worker. The _ good workers always remained on the job. Tribune: What are the working conditions like for most of the CUPW members? Parrot: For years we have had to work in very old buildings that fall down around us... we’ve had problems with dust, noise, poor safety conditions. As a matter of fact, the new plants look better but we still-have some of the old problems. Mechanization has created its own problems too. Throughout all of this we have to deal with management playing around with the collective agree- ment. Sometimes our grievances take up to two years to be resol- ved and we have thousands out- standing. Tribune: So you are forced to make management live up to the collective agreement through the grievance procedure? Parrot: Exactly, except that sometimes the agreement is en- forced after it has expired. It takes that long to get a decision on some of our grievances. Tribune: How far do you think the government is going to push the postal workers, and public sector workers generally? Parrot: I think the government would like to use postal workers as an election tool. They believe that our union is unpopular enough to manipulate, although I _ think the Postmaster-General is at least as unpopular when he talks about the postal service. The point is, they know that when postal workers take an action they affect every house in the country. What is better for a politician running in an election than a sub- ject that reaches everybody? Their problem, however, is that they’re not too sure their strategy will work anymore because the public’s attitude toward the postal workers is changing. People are fed-up when they realize the same Liberal government has done no- thing to resolve the problems after 10 years in power. The government’s strategy Ottawa rally staged for Fleck strikers By DOUG COUPAR OTTAWA — A rally held here recently in solidarity with the women on strike at Fleck Man- ufacturing Ltd. raised over $2,000 in support of the United Auto Workers (UAW) campaign for a first contract at the small Cen- tralia plant. Sheila Charleston, one of the striking Fleck workers, told the more than 500 people attending the benefit that ‘“‘with support like this we can continue the fight . .. We won't back down until they sign a contract’’. Others who addressed the rally included Dennis McDermott, president of the Canadian Labor Congress, Jean-Claude Parrot, president of the Canadian Union of Postal Workers, and Al Seymour, UAW _ international representative from London, On- tario. Randie Long, president of the Graduate Students’ Association of Carleton University, and an PACIFIC TRIBUNE—AUGUST 18, 1978—Page 4 organizer of the benefit, termed the rally ‘‘a fantastic success — we were overwhelmed by the large number of people who came out to tell the Fleck workers they are supported to the fullest’. ‘‘These workers. have been kicked around by the Ontario government, the Ontario Provin- cial Police, and the company it- self. The strikers’ determination to keep on fighting in the face of all this has proven to be one of the greatest examples of courage we’ve seen in a long time.”’ Long added that ‘‘Ottawa workers have made it clear. they don’t accept Fleck’s union- busting tactics . . . this struggle af- fects each of us very strongly’’. The benefit was sponsored by UAW (Local 641), CUPW (Otta- wa), Octopus Books, the Ottawa Coalition For Full Employment, the Great Canadian Theatre Company, the Ottawa Committee for Labor Action, and the Up- stream collective. against postal workers is also in line with the things they want to do to the rest of the workers in the federal public service and to workers across Canada generally. Take Bill C-28 for example, which will be much more restric- tive than the legislation we have now for negotiations in the federal public service. They want to im- pose the saine type of bill in all the provincial public services and well. This is why the Canadian 5 Labor Congress convention took | a stand against C-28. They realize 8 it has an impact on all Canadian ¢ workers. ~ 2 Tribune: Joe Davidson, the =} former president of CUPW, led the union through some pretty tough years and played a big part in building the union into a group which was prepared to really fight for its beliefs. He once said he felt like “‘the most hated man in Canada”’ because of the position he was in. How do you feel as president and where is CUPW heading over the coming years? Parrot: Well I’m pretty proud to replace the most hated man in the country, if that’s really the case! This union hasn’t changed with Joe Davidson leaving. Some people have commented that it was a change in style but not in substance and I tend to agree. The last CUPW convention im- proved the union’s policies and our orientation is quite clear. The leadership knows what it has to do; what type of representation the membership wants, the issues we have to oppose. CUPW will continue to be militant. We always encourage our people to participate fully be- cause being militant doesn’t mean being irresponsible, it means that you get involved in your union and force democracy to play its role. This always results in a bet- ter organization and it is a good example for the rest of the labor movement. Tribune: CUPW went to the last CLC convention with “‘A Program of Action for the Labor Movement’ which outlined a broad range of policies involving serious social reform. Why did you do it? Parrot: Our union was among the first to oppose the tripartite plan. We just didn’t think it was a solution, so when the convention was coming up we saw that more and more unions felt the same way. Now, what we said was it’s very nice to go to a convention and oppose tripartitism but what are we going to replace it with? We decided to try to put forward an alternative by proposing an in- dustrial strategy that was coming from the labor movement. One that would be for the workers in- stead of against them like the in-~ dustrial strategy the government talks about. The Program touched on things like unemployment. Surely the labor movement can play an im- mediate role here through collec- tive bargaining which is the pro- cess we know best. We could help by possibly promoting a reduc- finally in the private sector a “oe * iis est “At one time the best way to become a supervisor was to be a lazy ie a Lelttee oa Fs see : ae ee eT worker”, CUPW president told the Tribune. tion in the work week, banning overtime, and so on. That’s not enough but at least its a start. We also dealt with the prob- lems of wage controls, inflation, always with the idea that we can contribute to solving these through our membership. This seemed much better to us than meeting with government and big business and finding we just we- ren’t achieving anything. W: were promoting action. Tribune: But your Program was much more than that... Parrot: Yes, because corporate control of this country is so obvi- ous. There was a need to react to that because we can now see that the big corporations are working together to a greater extent than ever before on an international level. We felt it was about time we looked into our own economy to see what we could do here to fight those corporations ;that lay-off thousands of Canadians and in- vest millions and millions of dol- lars in places like Chile. Political- ly, we also have to ask ourselves" which party we’re going to sup- port. - Tribune: Didn’t CUPW advo- cate ‘“‘qualified support’’ for the New Democratic Party at the CLC convention? Parrot; Yes, we did. The reason we’re careful about the NDP is that we don’t think they've played the role they should: as a_ supposedly ‘‘socialist’’ party. If the NDP re- ally wants to gain the support of the workers then they’re going to have to indicate that they are on the side of the workers. ’ Tribune: How would you de- scribe the labor movement’s abil- ity to fight back against monopoly right now? Parrot: I think the labor move- ment passes too many ‘“‘paper’’ resolutions. We have a tendency to put things on the shelf. This certainly doesn’t solve problems or bring solutions. Our union has learned that if we adopt a policy it must be followed. The same must hold true for all of labor. If we receive a mandate then it must be acted upon. The labor movement will also have to start indentifying more and more what it wants from its party. I think there’s been an im- provement compared to what was adopted at the previous conven-— ; tion however. Tribune: How do progressives within the labor movement reach the rank-and-file and how do you ensure that the membership is backing you up? Parrot: First of all, you have to understand and know the workers you represent. You have to be sure you’re not bullshitting them; they have to acquire confidence in you — if they lose confidence then you’re sunk. I’m also in favor of open communication at all levels, both inside and out of negotiations. It’s important to meet with the members, to dis- ._ cuss, to explain things at every opportunity and to get constant input. Tribune: You spoke at a public meeting in Ottawa a few months ago with representatives from the — Canadion Union of Public Employees and the Public Ser- vice Alliance of Canada, which | was something of a first since we haven’t seen these unions work- ing on a common platform for. quite awhile. Are the public ser- vice unions going to join together for a concerted effort? Parrot: Definitely. It’s due to a lot of pressure coming from the rank-and-file in many areas but also because of the regular kick the government gives to workers , in the public sector. It’s coming and as a matter of fact, in the past year there have been numerous meetings between all the public service unions. There will be a lot more discussion because of things like Bill C-28 which brought us closer together. Tribune: Do you think the gov- ernment will strengthen its attack on the working class? a Parrot: Yes, but there is a limit. There’s no doubt that’s what they want to do right now, that’s what they’re trying, but the limit wil come faster than they believe possible. Tribune: What’s going .to hap- pen in Canada in the next few years? Parrot: Well I’m a very OP- timistic guy! The Post Office will become a Crown Corporation, the Liberal government will be defeated, and the labor move ment will become stronger.