I spent four days in Warsaw earlier this
spring and got the impression of a very
attractive city, with its wide boulevards,
large green areas and buildings that ap-
pear to be very well cared for. The streets
were filled with people, automobiles and
buses. Contrary to the picture painted by
Western, capitalist news media, the
military and police presence was mini-
mal.

I spoke with Stanislaw Ciosek, the
cabinet minister responsible for trade
union affairs. He gave me two hours of
his time, absenting himself from a ses-
sion of parliament to do so.

Like other cabinet ministers and cent-
ral committee officials of the Polish
United Workers’ Party (PUWP) I spoke
to, Ciosek pulled no punches in dealing
with the seriousness of the problems the
Polish nation is grappling with. At the
same time he expressed a cautious op-
timism and a firm belief that the policies
of his party and the government are in
keeping with the needs of the people.

He expressed a number of personal
opinions, reflecting the wide, ongoing
debate as to the future of the country and
the restructuring of the economy and so-
cial life which must be undertaken.

Future of Unions

Because of the wide interest in the
Polish trade union question in Canada,
we spent a good part of the. interview
discussing the future of the trade union

* movement in Poland.

Trade unions ina capitalist country, he
said, have a clearly specified role. How-
ever, in Poland, there must be a lot more
discussion and debate to determine the
future role of trade unions, in view of the
fact that all the means of production be-
long to the working people.

The old trade union structure, called
the branch trade unions, was weak in
defending the interests of the workers. In
the main, he said, they confined them-
selves to carrying out the functions of
production handed down to them by the
PUWP. However, he did not blame the
union leaders for this situation.

“‘The weakness of the trade unions,”’
he said, ‘‘has to be solved by the PUWP.
The party is made up of workers chosen

From % \
Poland |

Jack Phillips

by the workers. Such a party should
never have problems with the workers,
but that’s what happened.”’

He referred to August 1980 as ‘‘a real,
authentic outbreak of workers’ dissatis-
faction, anger and protest.’’

Western Debt

*“We could have avoided this crisis,”’
said the minister, ‘‘if we had not bor-
rowed $27-billion from the West to invest
in such a stupid way. These were simply
human mistakes of a subjective nature
and we blame our former leaders for that.
The crisis in the West results from objec-
tive factors built into the system, but it is
different under socialism where there are
no such objective factors.’’

What was the root of the crisis, I
asked. The reply was direct and to the
point: ‘‘We simply wanted to reach
higher living standards too quickly and in
an improper way.”’ ;

He pointed out that wages increased
by 50% between 1970 and 1975, followed
by more increases after 1975, without
any sound economic foundation for such.
increases. He referred to 1970-80 as a
period of widely spread degeneration in
society.

‘People were fooled by easy success
and a life style based on money borrowed
from the West.

**This degeneration,”’ he said, ‘‘had its
main effect on young people. They were
not producing efficiently at work and
they were getting paid more and more.”’

Until Dec. 13, he maintained, ‘‘we
were ‘producing mainly money, and the
workers could buy: less and less. This
created anger among the working class,
an anger cleverly exploited. The issue of
the trade unions was merely a pretext.
The idea of independent trade unions

PACIFIC TRIBUNE—JULY 9, 1982—Page 6

= eS Mle

Under martial law the agreements reached with the workers after August 1980 are being
implemented. Photo shows rank and file PUWP members before their Sth party congress.

FEATURE

ng democracy in Poland

View of central Warsaw: contrary to media reports Phillips says military and police
presence is at a minimum. a

was quickly developed by the enemies of
socialism, most.likely prepared from ab-
road over many years. Basically, all that
Solidarity offered was the demand for
more and more out of an almost bankrupt
economy.’

The price hikes introduced in Feb-
tuary of this year have lowered living

“The USA will not help us now so Wé
have to get more help from the socialist
community of nations. It will take somé
time to increase the integration of ou!
economy with that of the socialist com |
munity.

“Solidarity,”’ he explained, ‘‘was pel
ceived by the people as a way to a mole

— |

a

“Solidarity was perceived by the people as a way to a mole
democratic life. They wanted to be respected, consulted
and given a Say. It is in this area that we made our main

mistake.”

ene ;

ee |

standards in order to bring the economy
into better balance. The minister esti-
mated a drop in living standards of about
40% since August 1980, with Western
sanctions playing a key role in making
such a large cut necessary.

Can’t Avoid Realities

As to the future of the unions, he
bluntly said that this is a problem relating
to Solidarity, not the other unions. If
Solidarity were to disappear after the lift-
ing of the suspension on union activity
imposed by martial law, that gap would
have to be filled.

People thought Solidarity would make
their lives easier economically, he said.
According to the minister, Solidarity
published a program in 1980 promising to
solve the crisis in three years, while at
the same time increasing wages by 50%.
The whole sense of this. document, he
said, was ‘‘get rid of the communists.”

Walesa made the flamboyant’ state-
ment that, “We are going to build
another Japan.”’

“We are the government,” the min-
ister pointed out, ‘‘and we cannot avoid
the realities of Poland. We had to put an
end to that impossible dreanyand basical-
ly, that is why martial law was imposed.

“Are the people happy with the pre-
sent situation?’’ he asked aloud. “No,
but we have to fight for an understanding
of our intentions. We have to reach a
natural understanding with the people,
and not merely. an understanding be-
tween Solidarity, the church and the
party.”’

Understand the Economy

As to the prospects of reaching an
early agreement with the people, he of.
fered the opinion that the party and the
government must first get a better under-

Standing of the economy.

a Fon

democratic life. They wanted to be re: |
spected, consulted and given a say. It 18
in this area that we made our mail
mistake.”’ |

He pointed to what he called thé
paradox of military law: ‘‘Under the um
brella of martial law, parliament is builé-
ing a moré democratic life. We are calTy”
ing out the agreements reached with the
working class after August 1980, which
astonishes people who observe marti
law in Poland. Martial law is necessary 1
build a more democratic life. We mus! |
encourage people to participate more 1
running the country. Solidarity refuse
to participate and wanted to be an oppo
ition group against the government.

“It is against this background,’’ hé
maintained ‘‘that we have to place thé
question of the future of the trade unio?
movement in Poland.”’

More Effective Unions

The minister referred to legislation al-
ready passed, but at present suspende? |
by martial law, which would give work:
ers very wide authority in respect 1
production, investment, work rules and
the payment of compensation for works
and would give the enterprise much mor
autonomy in relation to the central plat
ning authorities, through representative
democratically elected in every entel
prise and in co-operation with the dire
tor.

Just before I left his office, ministe!
Ciosek quoted from what he described #5
an authoritative public opinion Pp?
showing that support for Solidarity ha
dropped to an all-time low. He assure
me there will be a rebirth of trade
unionism in Poland, a trade unionis®
that will be a more effective defender 7
the interests of the workers than the 0
branch unions, and.a partner of th?
PUWP in building socialism. d

aa