Helen Joseph July 3 1932
Alfr~d Joseph M~rch I 19?7
I worked for the lumber ~ompanys that were her~ in the
thirties and twentys and thirtie~ • Hanson lumber and
tJmber ~ompanv that was the only lumber company in the
Razeltons in the thirtie~ , it w~~ ~ pole company and
everybody in th~ valley right from Terrace up to
Burnslake worked for the one comp~ny. No other company
they took orrt Ceder po Ie s-and ties' mostly.
She worked in a hospital
I worked in ~ ho~pit~l
Which one the old one or new one the one they tore down
thats the one
Row long did you work there.
about six months when I was sixteen, maid cleaning

floo

r~
What kind of schooling did you get
Felen, just grade school
where was that
Relen, Ragwilget in 'a log building
What grade
Relen , I ~ont Rnow
Alfred, Seven
Relen, yes seven
And your ae Lf
Alfred, Eight
Is th~t down at Hagwilget to
Alfred,
part of it in Hagwilget part of it in re~ident
ial school it was La Jac
How many people in your family
Helen , six
how many in yours Alfred
Al-f'red,oh j'u-~
t me and Bert
Relen, and his grandmother
Alfred '"gr-andm+the rIn thi~ ~chool were there any white children
Alfred', no
When y~u worked at the hospital down here was everbody
treated the same
Helen, ya
Whd~" the doctorsRelen, Doctor Whiting,wh6,~ the other one.
Alfred, Murphy
,Helen, Doctor Murphy, me ~nd Emela worked from the
village •
~ou walked down every day.
He l.en , oh we lived in the hospi tal.
When did you go away to re3id'ential school.
Al:Pred , 1938
Do you remember any ~pec~ic subjects like floods or

when they built the briage
Helen, Idont remember may be dad
Alfred .I remember when they ~tarted building thi~
bridge
Th~ old bridg~ or thi~ new one
Alfred , Thi~ I93I I wa~ four I could remember that
when they fir~t started , then I remember they started
tearing the old bridge do~n.
Did you do any trapping
Alfred , ~ traped when I was ten and befor that I u~e
to go with my aunt~ and uncles trapping oh no not
trapping they use to ~nare the ~quirrels~eveybody
done that in the village
Thi~ when eveybody went out and traped
Alfred , yaya
Did you.
Helen No Ididnt do any trapping but !,went with the
old people ~nare rattit~
And berry picking
Helen, berry picking fishing.
That wa~ when alot of fishing was done down at the ~~n:
c-anyon
Helen, ya when there wa~ lotsa fish
That was about thirtie~
Alfred , thirtie~ and ~ourtie5
Helen, thars befor they blow the rock out
Just the people from the village fished there.
H~!en', No there people from the ,there wa~ people
from Hazel ton Ii v ing down the canyon across • There
was two big smoke house s across aho~·~here was a bunch
on this side to I dont know how many there were.I dont
rememt'ler
Alfred, there was two smoke houses onthi~ side and one
on the other ~ide.
ffelen .oh ya one
Al~red , oh two on the other side
ffelen , two on the other ~ide.
Alfred,
whats left of it u~e to be more all rotted
down
What about yo' r entertainment
He Len , well nothing much all we dene ]:'nf-the
spring
time ,part of the spring befor we get busy was playball
that all.
Never went to movies
~elen, no well there was hardly any movies
Sports days
Helen ,there was sports days we go to in Mav.
That be down in Hazelton
Helen, Hazelton back here at the ba'Ipark
~hat was befor you had to go start fishing •
Helen, fishing berry picking
.What kind of berries ?
Soap berries ,Huckel berries , Rasp berrie~ what ever
that was eatable
That was when the whole family use to go
Helen, ya

You do any commerctal fishing or work in a cannery
Helen , no till lately
Your mother and father name was.
Maggy and Joe Joseph
Wilson
Helen , yes
Any particul~r story you can think of or stories
Alfred, well I can remember in r933 the last year
my grand f~ther was alive, he use to ~et rabbit
snares I use to go with him and we use to go pass the
New IT~zelton hotel it was right were Simpson Sears
store i~ now and there was other old log b ildings
still up from the constuction days were still up.
Like the old bank the old log building the one they jusc
tore down lately next to Chevon they s~id that was ~
b~nk in 1910
Thats the old museum
Alfrea , ya that:museum that was the bank and a
the Peter Wili~ms dad use to tell us about the bank
robbery how he use to be ~ special const~ble • And ~
one morning police came one of the policeman came
and got him said there was ~ bank robbery in New
IT~zelton ~o they wanted him so he went with him
Tha t was the RCMP
Alfrea,nono the provincal, old Charlie Williams, he use
aFrest~people white constuction d~y8~tBet must h~ve
been 1909 T9TO. ITe told us ~bout that bank robbery
how they shoot them
rrow aid you get ~round w~at was your means of tran~port
ian.
Helen , we w~lk
Alfred , w~lk and wagon horses
You tr~vel ny railway
Alfred , ya we traveled by railway
Helen , we didnt
Alfred, you go to Smithers you h~d to take the train
hardly anybody drove everybody traveled by rail •
There use to be ~ passager tr~in every day and then
on weekends Friday and saturday there use to be a """:-(
~_::>
freight~'yQu know a local freight they called it weigh
freight i~pse to have a passager car attacted to the
tail end of it •
Any stories like after WWI1
Alfred ,No oh 'WWI1 oh ya that was quit something we
were out berry picking 9 mile mountian when the war
started and we were coming back no we on our way out
~or berry picking ~nd the two recuiting officers
caught up with us ~round 6 mile and they were looking
for Tom Mar~hell.so we got , ~nd there wa~ crew working
~t seven mile. They were the public worker , people
went out and sort of a make work project whole pil~

oe people wa~ at seven mile and when we got there we
told Tom Mar~hell, that ther~ was two army officer~
looking for him.
so he just took off back to Hazelton
r guesse thats when he joind the army that was in 39
I think it wa~ and everybody figured,
everybody 1n
village figured they going to take everybody they see
so they all hide didnt hide very long but
They thought they were going to be drafted
Alfred, ya didnt draft to many,Jac~ Mitchel, Johnny
Austin, Kerb Tait.
Did they see any eighting over there •
Alfred, I dont knowJohnny went seas r dont know ~q~
he made out thoughlots people from New Town went ·~ome
didnt come back.
Did you associat a lot with people from New Town.
Yup all the time .1 worked ,~eople from here worked
for people ~n New Town quit a bit always little works
going on , cord wood some of them w~r.~ pole contractors
some were tie contractors so people from here went to
work for them Dan Mckenzie,
John Person ,George )Pareni:.
Helen, Carls dad.
Alfred ,Carl Cristians father Gus Cristiansthey all
had pole contractes • And then we use to cut cord
wood for the coast cannieFs in the summer time this
place use to empty right out , everybody went commercial
fishing , in Hagwilget young men all went went woman
Just the elders and kids left in the village.
Did you work for any wnites in New Town.
Helen .ya ,1worked for what you call that owned that
store lackwort~y.
Alfred ,Ya W.J. Lackworthy use to have store in New
Town
Was that a general store.
Alfred , ya general store ,you worked for King to
didnt you cafe
T~at was a chinese restlJ.ro!r'1t
Helen ,ya just clean up thats all pell potatos
wash dishs
Were abouts did you live when you married.
Well we moved beside the church there we ran a foster
home
For native children.
Helen, oh ya lotsa of them ,all the times of the day
early morning had to get up when ever we were called
we had to get up
Did you receive non-natives.
Helen, no just for native children.
How long did you do that.
Alfred, about six years.
How many children do you have.
Helen, five.
,Grandchildren.
H'elen ,three.
Alfred, Four
Helen, oh four
do you stili work.
I1elen no
Tou have any hobbies •
oh yes making moccsins
What about your cra~ts did you sell your leather to
~

.•.

tourist or to shops
Helen , craftshops Ksan mostly but !havent done any
thing for the last 2 years but I still make t~em.
When did you start carving
Alfred , 1965.
You were around Ksan.
Alfred, that was befor Ksan .Nobody carving when I
started , well e few around but not full time like
what I was doing •
So that was your livelyhood.
Alfred', no I was still working at in pole yard while
I was doing that I done that for two years and then
I a ,67 I went full time carving.
thats when there
was talk o~ ksan • That started in 68. Ksan started so
I moved the~e were it is now.
Alfred, yes I stayed ,1 carved t~ere untill oh 74
I guess or 7~. You done lotsa bead work for them
weaving kneck laces eh.
Helen, ya.
You remembe~ particular bad winter.
Alfr~d, oh yes what year was that Sheila first went to
~rince George 68.
Helen .something like that.
Alfred, must have be 08 there was about five feet of
snow up here;
Up here on the field.
Alfred, ya Hagwilget ,Walter Took'him feu:!'hours to
get to Hagwilget ~rom his place.
Walter Joseph.
Alfred, Yes get his cat though~it was. The snow was
so deep but it was the base was just powdery thats why
he coulded move • The snow on the bottem was just like
he said was just .like sand so he just spin
So Iguess the folling sprigg·must have being big flood.
Alred, well no.
In 36 abig flood in Hazelton Bulkley was petty high
that when people went around Vancouver, people going
commerial fishing
Nothing bad happened •
Alfre~, no no.
What do you remember what Hagwilget V'laS like when you I'T
were you were younger.
Alfred, Well one thing there was no electricity and
a people then didnt worry about anv bills at ell
n!wer heard one person say I have to pay my light bill
or phone bill , but you had to pack your own water if
had only lig~t was coal oil and gas and they got from
New ~own, and it was a very close community you could
go to any house visiting any time when you Knock on~he
door nobody came to the door they told you to come ln

now people come to the door when you knock on somebodys
door
Is that the same when you visited somebody in New town
Alfred, well it was dif~~ent there they came to the door
when somebody knocked , some of the old bachelours
were like that they hollered come in but some of them
came to the door.
Helen. well everybody was close them days
Alfred even white people
Everybody new everybody.
Alfred,yes there was in the evening winter time
when evening came you could hear people sawing wood
thourgh out the whole village was just that ringing
sound every were you could hear people sawing wood
like if they were trapping or were out cutting poles
when they came home in th~ evening they cut wood there
was no power saw people getting water , getting wood.
Did you enjoy your life here
Alfred, ya
Never considered moving
Alfred no
But you went to"see other places
Alfred, ya
Like
Alfred,oh we worked in Kelowna okanogan valley for one
summer
Did you like it dowrt there.
Helen oh ya
What did you do down there.
Helen, picking cherries ,pea~hes anh apricots
Just by your selves •
Helen."
'
Vla Jonvah ave a f' aml'Iy reunlon
Helen ,no
You use to travel around other villages
Helen ,not much
you
Alfred, Yes ~h ya Ithink I visited village inthe
north
That wa~ even when you were younger
Alfred, yes Iwas up in the Yokon working in 195?
I visited ,I went thourgh
Alaska to get to the Yokon
Worked there for a while ended up in Alberta.
You just worked in these areas
Alfred, ya working, working in a mine up there and
then worked on a dam in the Yokon
What dam was that
Alfred, that the being built for t~e oh what d~o they
call it a mine up on Mayo.
I remember the name, r for
got
what about the residental school LeJaque, how many
others from the village went there •
Alfred ,oh from here was just Bert ,but there was quit~
a few from Hazelton -I~s8e Tommy Green, Steve moore,
Biddy Morrison,Buddy
and Eager Williams
Alfred ,that was catholic

Everyone
went ti church
oh ya
Alfred everybody.
Helen, we have to attend evey day early in the moring
had to go to church , and we freeze in church to no heat
in there just a big stove when its wi~ter time. No
lights just candels
Alfred, priest lived right there he was the same way
he had no electrcity all he had to was wood and the pri
est didnt have a car either
So he just walked like eve-rybody e-lse.Any priests that
you remember might be still alive.
Alfrea , no them old priests are all dead , one nice
priest wernad' was fathe-r Draon in the 30s he' spoke , he
s~ayed here about a year he learned our language rigfut
through then he had to move away • Hewa~ r~ally a nice
priest ,and he died in Teslen.
Where is that?
Alfred, up north when he left he spoke Y'pur language
fluently and I was his teacher,
I wa~ alter boy and
he ask me what we called that or this.
Any 5torie~ that your mother fetheT , aunts unc'les
told you •
Helen, r dont rem~mber,
Alfred, well all !1remember only ~tories told me was
the • Well ..a::trne story is when my granfather Joseph
and another old man' they were young at the time , they
called him Jonas grandmother said that fath~r Mor~et~
wanted somebody to climb the mountian out here Roce de
Boule and he chose them .1 think there was three,
all
I remember was two • My grandmother ~aid they gtarteU
ou~ at 4 oelock in the morning from the Hagwilget
church , and the people s~ayedright there , they were
all out side the church must of being around 1910.
I think it was and they went up by noon ,J gue ss t.hey
brought wood along , and they light the fire over there
just about to the top • And let the people know
where theyer at. And:people could see the smoke and
ah oh 15/20 minutes Tater gee must of being , heard
the shooting up on top of the mountians they fired
they fired shots • So they seen smokf from mussel
loaders jas below the top, that when they knew thats
t~ey got to the top. People were down here praying
their hearts out for them father Morries I guess behind
it .Eveybody were scared. I dont know what they were
scared of , Johnny David was saying he told me that to.
Johnny David from Moriectown.
Alfred, ya
rou play lot of sports •
Alfred, not to many,
only once a week here(wednesday
night was show in New ~own in the 40s
New Town hall •
Alfred, yes in the hall
Relen, the o;d hall not the one standing now.
Alfred, yes the old hall

Where was that at?
Helen, toward the station there
Alfred, were Stib Willein is living now thats where the
old hall use to be 50 cents to get to watch a movie
Thats on wednesday night •
lIelen• oh when ever they have it.
Alfred, and it was eull evey time, and then on saturday
nights in Razelton hall. Tow shows a week was no T.V.
a bit of radio • w~s no radio here the 30s • An old
man lived in two mile down where O.K. Esso is, he
had a radio people use to visit evey night list~n to the
radio.
What do you remember about the Old ~own area what
was it like down there,
Helen, no houses ~etween oh ya the old guy you were
talking about
Alfred, Taylor George Macbain, there three houses
down whe~e the church is old Senden, and two houses
that are still there ther only five houses between
Hazel ton and .hew Town , I mean Hagwilget oh six wi th
o~rd Louie Martienson across the river by the creek
and there was no lights just totaly dark people were
scared to walk on the road dont remember what we were
scared of.
What do you remember of New Town, of the people that
crse live there ,
Alfred, the Willens they alwaysbeen, there .All the
_\
Spcorre re that ar-ev he r-e now have always been here
Bert, Homer,Hank,and
the Sargents, Smith~s
What about highway construction
AI~red, nothing the just pensioners use to work on
it • make work projects .Telegraph lines, we use to
go picking berries ,my granmother use to pick berries
in ah down on up in nine mile mountian • She huckle
berries at the foot of nin~ mile mountian and we use
to see the line that went through there part of the
old telegraph line.
Ever go over the line yourself ?
Alfred, ya were the telegraph line runs through
• You go across through two mile see that ridge~~B~t
t.hat ...wha t it would follow • On top- of the ridge and then
it-goes north to Kispiox somewere the wires were around
there if yougo to nine mile today youly see those wires
some places you could find some insulators tp. y grand
mother use, in the 3~s two camp sites were still the
people that built the C.N. there was two camp sites yoo~
coua~ see up on a just north of Ross lake and still see
the houses~at~thBt
time still standing.
So that was
only ~O years after eonstruction was finished. Still' ~
.tfiere in the 30s.
Did you do any commercial :ishing
lfred, Ya everybody like I said I first went commercial
fishing I was thirteen.
On a big boat or a small
.
. .
Alfrea, small boat i939 , when I flrst went flshlng

Commercial fishing power boat , a old sail boat converteJ
to power.I fished out of Nelson Brothers cannery
Any whites work theTe from around here?
Alfred , I dont know I worked in Nelson Brothers
cannery, then worked in cassy.EPe , Carlyle, Port Edward
Carlyle across the Skeena on the other side I fished
there T fished out out of Cassyare.
Jack Mitchill was in camp Bordon he was in the tack core
thats why he didnt go over seas he had to learn more
Had to be petty smart t6 to get into the tank core
he was a pirvate he wa~ tropper different from the
in~entry you didnt need any education , the one Jack was
in was more techneical
From EeJaque school did you get any further education
that in the ~orm of high school?
Alfred. no
.ias there a high school down here?
Alfred, ya just a small little one
Was St Marys school always there?
Alfred, 1959 when it was started
So all the people form HagwiJget went there
Alfred, were in school here they called Hagwilget indian
day ~chool or Roch de buel indian day school.
Where was that A'-'.:-"~f;
Alfred, tl'l.at
was one of the log houses: right in t"le
village once I remember the one T went to • ~hey moved to
were the band office is now that was a school to start
with
That was used to 1959.
Alfred , yes
"flhenSt marys
Any whites go to Hagwilget
Alfred no they went to there own school •
Ts that st marys
Alfred, No,no they had public school
All the houses down here are some remaining f rom when
you were young?
Alfred , not a one.
Helen the one next door built resently
Alfred, in the last~~O years.
There nothing left'from
up to 1985s • The old houses you see here now is started
in 1949. The rest are all , Idont think there any thing
left • ~e church is only one 198? • I think and that
was built by indian monev • What Johnny Daviad said his
~ather was head cheif of Hagwilget Smogylgym when they
made collection from all the trappers in the area, was :
quite a pile of money She had to pack around in a hacker
tied , one day she told her husband gee I am going to
lose this money I dont watch out. I have a suggestib~n:
to make to you , she told him , her husband Smogylgym
She said that , we could use this money welll lend it
Totall the trappers all the head trappers of the W
Wet suwet en. And they have to pay it back with in the
year. Just like they do at the feast with intrest •
So tl'l.ey
let word out_that it was up that money was up fo~
loan for trappere • ~o everybody borrowed: quite a bit
of money she had1with in the year they pt~d back and it

..

~o quite a bit sum of money,. thats. what started the chu
rca building in Ragwilget.
What was her name'?
Alfred, gee T forget now Mrg that ,.Johnny B'avid8 mother
Old Mrs David.
Alfred, cheif David,Johnnys father funny name he called
him .osevelt. I dont know why he called him that, he
says his name is Rosevelt he was Smogylgym. So that when
the church :und started.
said t~at fter it was
built every family in the Wet suwet en • My grandfather
bought the bell that still there you know alter bell
That 3 ,bellg because a her son fl1homasGeorge was a'lter
boy so they bought ~hat bell and people same with the
bell same way t~roogn collection
So that every thing in that church is made through
vollenter
Alfred, ya vollenters and indians them selves. There was
no white community around then in 1907
How was the lum~er made
Alfred, they said ~ ary , said they put up a sl'lW_.'mill
some one had a saw mill in ~len Vowelland a they sawed
the lumber there and they rafted it down to ffazelton
from Fazelton they hauled up in wagon across the bridge
and then there was no brndge at that time, So they
had to dump it across the bridge and the people they
said like Joshua Hollen and Mary George 3year8 old
they held to pack lumber across one at a time even dogs
packed lumber up ~rom the canyon. So it all had to be
packed across the river every bit of lumber thats there.
So then the church is out side services befor that?
Alfred, no no they had sm&l~ building ~_l.~heyhad
a log building ~or that.
So every thing was log houses.
Alfred, ya loghouses.
1