----

~_..._"'i-

..".·.•....•. r-

.••.

-,

--

;t:n-terveiw wi th Rod Martin.

R-

Well it

was when Maitland

river,

we were

actually

and I and Toby (Marshall)
going up to~ede

.
and of course the competition

that

myself,

was to

~oby,

was sitting
in

and Maitland.It

in

the

the middle,But

road.So

foby

.cuase

anyway.Here

gets

And he blasted

middle

out

they

we were grouse

hunting

between

people,

~

see who was the
wpuld

this

always

bully

YOu{s~~~I

me into

si tt ing

twelveguage

shotgun.

in

grouse

in

the

sitting

shut

'-you see , and he had a sawed off
sky,

grouse'

best

these

of the

the

is

along

Kispiox

in the midd~

f

a hole

goes

Inn.And

were up the

road~

and the

he didn't

do

.

a thing. So Maitland
got out and he had a t.weLve guage pump gun s He took a shot .•
and then another,.
one. So I got out and I had a t.went.y guage and I let fly with
this
thing and that grouse was still
standing
there.Peetty
soon the gr'ouse
flew up and there was thts lone poplar
tree way over by the river.One
single
poplar tree in the whole area.And hf3 flew higher
and higher
and. higher and he
hi t that poplar
tree rip,ht in the middlE\and t':en fell
down to the ground.
I think the Idea was that +he grouse felt
sorry for us. We coulrln' t shoot him
so he committed suicide
for us.And thats
exactaly
what happened to this poor
groy-se.

S": Thats
e-Toby

almost

Marshall,

.I-Did
you go to
then.
~-

be LeLveahqe ,

No not

Bill

Maitland

school

with

Maitland,

and I ussually

mooched' around

t.ho ae guy~, •••• or· Maitland

••••• ToBy. I went to

school

Hi th

together

•

wouldn t T have been around

Toby.

:!-Where?

t? - In Hazel ton as a matter
~-The

old

school

of fact,

down by Rosie

.

He t ook all

our

s choo Lf.ng in Hazel ton •

Morrison's.

~-Yes,
that Has the first,
that Has gr-ade one, thats
where I took my gr-ade one.
And in those days as you know they us ed to have many grades in one. school,do
you remember how many they had. They had five or six in one school. Then I
recall
moving over to the secon~ary
school.

j- The new one?

f2- No the

s cho oL I went to was sr-Lght. across
from where Tribal
Council is now.
It was right
on the street
of course.And
as I recall
the rest
of the grades ~
wer-e in there,from
grade six t o twelve .~ecuase
there .was only a few people in
the ~pper grades.

J.....
Who else

did you go to

~_oti there

was Bl,lly

school

Panter,

with?

add the

Senden boys,

Natchel

and Rollie,

the

Falkner

.....
-~-.-?-

the fal~ner
boys,
the orie s that
are
halverson.
-Hhere

did

they

Freddy
around

and Buck and Bob Blackstock,
here.The
Halverson
boys,Alec

T~""-_"'--, "._ ~ -.

of course
Halverson

those are
and Hanr .~

8:).

live?

_.Nell "he r-e father,
there parents
owned the place out there
just past Bill
ludwigs,
down om the flats.He
had c.at t Le and potatoes,
you could go 'and pick
potatoes
every fall,
sold cord wood in thewinter.T~o
else did we go to school
w' th ?Micheal Myros· and Cha.rlie Myros and Lida and Bar-br-a and Carol.
_
••••. but they were younger than dick and I.
~What
-

years?

I started
school when I was six years old,
so that
so it would have been19h7 wherr I 'finished
up

_ Did you go right

through

to

wo~ld have
(

been

in 1936.

cr-ade twelve?

_Oh yes,
13, lLL, and le:; too Dick, my bro her was with me, he was only 18
months older
than me so 1e went throu~h
school to gether.Becuase
we we~e so
close together
in our ages.
-:!'-What kind

.

of t.e ache-r-s did

- What kind!1~ell

they

you have"

were human be I ngs s I don.'t

.
- Well where were they fr~m were they city boys?

know what kind

you mean •

Ql--Well Miss Flick was my first
teacher,
I don't know where shecame from.I know
that in the later
times in the uper grades in high schol.
people like Mr.
Huwer and people like
that.And
Mrs. Labelle
I remember.But
the one I remember
the most was Mitchell
Newman.That was a brother
of Ward and Tom Mars~ll.
And 'lrJeof course di-dn I t call
him Mitchell
or Mickey as he was more commo'nLy
known 8S.0 f course
it was Mr. Newman.I guess I remember him the most becuse
he was one of:th~
better
teachers.
that I met.
'

:r - Did you ~

have

for

your

teachers?

....

R-..,. Very much so.
-j"'- EVen the

respect

(

b ad one s?

\L- i don't

know what you mean the bad ones:I
don't
know 'lrJb.atwould classify
as a
bad teacher.I
beJieve
that
the thing was that the discipbine
the schools was
some what di fferent
than it is today and the respect
that we showed th ese pro p
was not only in the school ro~m itself.But
that
also applied
out of school
a ell.It
was not something
that you turned
on and off though out the day
It was~~pected
by them .But really
it was some of the teaching
that we receive
from our p ar-errt ax that brought. that
abou t ,

:r--you

were

told

to.

~--we
were'taught.We
weretaught
by our parents.But
that
same respect
that was
afforded
by the'teacher
was exactly
the same as any senior
perso~ that you
came Ln contact
with.For
exampLes s The butcher
in town, his name was ].ou
Powell.But
I don't
think I ever called
him Lou Powell in.all
my life,
it was
always Jl.1r. Powell.Because
it just happened that when I was a youngster
I went
down to the butcher
shop my mother always indicated
that we had to address him
as Mr. Powell. She never heard us calling
him butch as everybdy else did.I'm
afraid
~f we did we would have been , let us sa~ chastized.

-

.;-What

about discipline?

;« --I was told that when I went to school if I ever got the strap at school, i would get
it again when I got home.And

the one time I did get the strap at school, I didn't

get it when i got home but i might as well have.
It was an acepted thing.
What form of punishment?
a strap a leather strap on the palm of the hand. ever did get the strap.
)1' ---This was Mr. Newman form of punishment. Was to pull your hair.
Oh that wasn't punishment that was a remeinder that you were goofing around.The thing there
was that't. I're talking about two different thin discipline and punishment.The pinishment
that they got was the strap and this was administered right in front of the schoolroom
where everyone could see.At times Charlie Myros, he would get giggling and he could~'t
stop gigge~ing and he'ld be still giggeling when a little frail old lady teacher was trying
to flog him on his hands and the harder' she 1-,rould flog him the more it would tickle
and the more he would laugh.Oh there were other things to whfn discipline and respect
goes outthe window.The greats est thing in the world was whe~hey would come down hard on your
hand you pulled it away and they would come down hard on their lap.So that''Wasn't
very good because that would double up your punishment then.
-Sometimes it would almost be worth the laugh.
~- Well that was showing disrespect
~ -What would constitute getting a strap, what would you have to do to get one ?
Well as I recall their was one time there was some people; Something had gone missing
from the schoo and I recall the teacher threatening to strap everyone in the school
until she found the thing.Well it didn't come off,because who ever it was shaking so hard
and we weJ::~:quivering so bad that it worked and what ever it was that was stolen was ret.ume
The other time that I saw the strap ,David Carey and Charlie Myros,were acting up while
Miss Flick was toutoring at their;"'deGkand they happen to be sitting together .Now Carlie
was a very very big young boy.The~dust
goofed around and they just weren't listening
to her or anything.And I think she might have had a bit of a firey temper because
that was the first time that I ever saw a teacher throw a book, litrally throw a book at a
student, she did , she throgh it right at them.And so they were then to be punished.That was
another reason was for horseplay and fooling around.And she though the book at them and
that wasn't enoug nd then she strapped them both.That was when Charlie couldn't quit
giggling.I don't recall any thing of a violent nature that caused discipline to be brought
down, I don't recall anything like that.
ostly the break down of respect.
I would imagine that would be enough, the break down of respect and lack of , and not
conforming to the disciplines that were laid down
>- The teache were they as human -r-ims i.de the school as they were outside, would you find
yourself making a joke of you teachers.
Not of your teacher. However I imagine that there were times when you would joke with
them. We did have that
~- ----At the same time nobody had more fun with the students than Micky Newman used to.and the
kids all loved him but nobody ever lost respect for him·land they never ever went over the
boundry that was laid down.
"5-These boundries how were they laid down. Wereyou told these· are the things you have to do:
you cannot make fun of the teacher, you can not talk in class.Or was it more along the
lines of as you got to know your t.eachez ycu got to know where the boundries are.
~Well
in t he main of course,I have to take you back to the teaching of or parents.Which of
cours~s
that if we got disciplined at school, w~ot another punishment at home. So that
those boundries, for a large part wer set down by your parents in how you would conduct
yourself at school and if their was anything that went arey.Then you were rut
to answer to
your parents as well as your teacher.So the bo dries were set in the earl ears, before you
started school and as we were teing told that due respect were being affor ed the teacher
Within this classroom itself I do know that there were certain ground rules that werdverbally
put down.But in all my years in school I don't ever remeber reading a set of rules or
~

guidelines pointed on the wall or posted or anything like that.The think it was something
that was imparted by the teacher at the begining in some fashion.But not in some autocrCltic
manner that you made you afraid of them.The
ere just something that happened and the way
the teacher came on.
----But in the by fhe same token your teachers were lways your good friends ..Your teachers
were not somebody that ignored you when school was out. They always new you and treated you
with respect.
id the education go beyond the school room. Was the able to see you on the street and say
Rodie lhave a book you should read, you would probally enjoy it.
Jt could have. As you know they didn't have complete classes back then.And so therefore
the teachers would take on night classes outside of the classroom of youngsters that
were try4ing to ....Well I can recall one time that we used to go at night.We didn't have
a french class in the school at that time it just was not there.And we didn't have a french~
teacher, she was teaching every thing. So she took it upon herself to teach us french at her
place.Four or five of us used to go to per place and we to k our french. That was out side
the schooJentirely there was nothing i~he school.I recal hat one time that one year,but
that might not have been so other years.
~-what kind of subjects.Basically just math reading, writing?
--Oh yes, english, science
----Science cause I hated it.
-,Geography, biology, history, algebra, geometry.And the earliest part was latin.
You wouldn't find any woodworking, home economics or any of that kind?
---No in grade eight we had what you called citizenship.lt was a combination of learning
about parliment and other things.
-Therewere no I.A. classes.
---In the school I went to there wasn't room for anything.we took our french class at the back
of the room.We had this stove in the midddle of the room.ln he winter time you would sit besid
it and get so hot you could nIt move and if you moved three feet away you froze to death
..-The chemistry, there was a little room at the back that was the chemistry rooom.lt was at the
back end, it was very very small I don't think it was any more than ten feet wide and twenty
feet 10ng.And there we had various things and we did experiments,we did a fair amount of
chemistry.And that was always a very interesting part.As I say we didn't have anyI.A. but they
did teach the rudiments of it.One teacher Cheste~rsen
taught us how to knit and we weren't
young people at the time.We were just interested in it and he taught us how to knit. He
~
knited the loviest pairs of his own sweaters.So I recall sitting there at one point knitting .
•J
at about tests and stuffflike that were you tested?
Yes.
I
---test were frightful
Goverment exams.and over the school term we had a series of tests.
----Do they have such things as school inspector anymore? Cause we used to have days when the
inspectors would come around. What every couple of months or so.And everybody shook in their
boots.When we went to school the teachers were as afraid of them as we were the days the
inspector was coming.Everybody dressed up and we didn't say boo.When we went to school there
was one inspector for the entire district.The one inspector would
e a lot of schools
todo.
Thats not unusual even in the business world today, but it would be your boss that would B~
doing that task and at other imes it would be the auditors who carried out that function.
In our business they would have once a years performance and d' lopment reports.Or we would
prefer tocall them developments reports .It included all of the functions of managment,

tJ

administraion and operation and managment.
;-When did you start with B.C.Hydro?
n 1955, well actually before 1955.1 frist got into electricity after I
been in a small logging company that we had set up.After that I worked at
the hospital where I operate the desil generator and also the electric
distribution system in Hazelt n, that would include south HAzelton, Old
TQwn, Kispiox and all the ohers.From generators tha~ere
first located at
the Wrinch Memorial Hospital up until 1955 and in that year the new
station was built across from tyhe Hospital and that as how we producecd
the power here abd distributed it to the local area.That was up to 1955
when at that time I was appointed supervisor to the B.C. Power commission
And then following that I was appointed sub district manager in Hazelton
until 964.At which time I was then transfered as disrtrict Manager in PorT
Haray.I had a gloriuos three and a half years in northerrn Vancouver
Island
I had the oportnity at least of starting with that station from the time
it was just a bush plant to the time it was built to an operating station
in October of 1955, when we starte that station.And then the other station
at the hospital was closed down at that time.The engines were taken out and
sent to B la Co Ila.They were what was called, they were Cat~apilllar
deseils, they were V-8, D 17000 V-8 That was in the Hospital generating
staion and we had one Buda engine there. too.So tha as basically the history
L of when the B.C. Power Commission came in to the area in 1949.
-)-What about before that what was used in the area for electricity?
~In
Hazelton theG$tamax Water and Power company had a desiel generator,and
it was owned by R.S. Sargent LTD had a desiel generating station down across
from where the village works yarq is now.They had a series of engines inthere
I think the earliest ones were fa banks.I think they were very small ones.
And I do. know that they had International desiel electric set.
-Who did he supply power to?
.
~He
supplied power to all of Hazelton, that was Hazelton proper and mt was
D.C, properly known as direct current system.He also supplied power to, a
fairly good supply of power to the goveremnt telegraph office,which was
in Hazelton at that time.
?-Along
the telegraph line or just directly to the office?
Just directly to the office.THE line itself was not powered up.It was a single
line telephone ground.The office itself used a fair amount of powe because
there was a fairly heavey circut going from t he station up to that office.
that time as you know Hazelton was a central place for the telegraph
sy~tem amd there was a number of operators in th
and people.And the
telegraph system gave service along the telegraph line from Ashcroft to up to
the Yukon telegraph line through to Fairba
s Alaska to Prince Rupert.At that
time it would ahve been communications center I guess in the~rliest
times
the only communications center up in this area.~
I think the next most
important cen ter would ahve been Ashcroft, who was connected up to the rest
of Canada.But tha w
the electric generation of that day.And I understand
that, and I haven't done any resaerch on it, that ther
e~other,
that there
were was electric generation in hazelton for quite a number of years.Know
there might have been people b roe that,But I recall the first
one in 1939,or 1936, I think it was 1939 the operator of that one was Jasper
Stanyear,I do n't think you would know who the stanyear were~But Jasper
ran the generator for Gitamax power and wa~er.
~-He had quite a monopoly at that time then didn't he?
~Well I don't think you would call it a monopoly becuase he was the only
availbe think.
I don't think you would call it a monopoly when it was the
only availbe thing and it was an absolutly ~~ae§~~ntiai~service.

And as I recall they would not oerate the station on a full twenty four
hour shift.They would shut it down at twelve mid-night.But it was an
effective reasonable way of providing power to the poeple of Hazelton.
~ It carried out its responseability very well.
~-What was liffe like a that time
~well
of course there
as no T.V. at that time.And the e rliest shows I seen
were call ed latern size.It was a little projector wit~
cola light behind
it and it project a picture.It was very dim on the screen but you put a
little
slide in it.And then my earliest recollect'oon of entertainment
out sid the home was the movie that came into tow~about once a week or about
once a month.Mr
tee I and mrs
eel would come down and set his projector
up i the hall down where Bertema 'sstore
is now, that was the thaetre.
So we as youngsters used to go down there. When we saved up enough money.
~-HOW much was it?
-I don't recall how much it was.It was tewnty five cents I think.But
anyway we got around that .Because Mrs. Steel used to love lilacs
So we would go and raid peoples lilac bushes. You see there was lots of lilac
bushes in Hazelton at that time.We used to raid them and we would bring
her these great beauques of lilac bushes.And she would: let us in for
free. So we knew how to get in if we didn't have any money.The shows
of course; he didn't have two projectors he only had one.So you always
had to wait while he rewound the machine to put on another reel.He
rewound it and we had to wait, there was a little break there.So that
was entertainment on that side.Other things that brought entertainment
to the youngsters
were evening sports.Badminton was one thing that
was very big in Hazelton.I recall playing a lot of badminton even in
my young adult years.A lot of things were carried on outside, you made
your own enterainment.In the later years of course
as youngsters there
had the dances in town every so often. They had some main ones like
the Armisist dance and the Flower show dance, because every year these
great, what they called thehorticultural hall, a big flower show that
was part of the entertainment.
-----It was a known fact that on certain holidays the dances on those
days were held in New Hazelton and on other days they were held in
Hazelton and you would never tread on the other persons toes.For instance
the May twenty fourth dance was held in New town and the Flower show
dance was held in old Town
utdoor sports in the wintertime of course ment hockey and skiing.Cross
country partly, but therewere no down hill runs like you know them
today.There were no towes or anything so that you packed your skis
on your back up the hill then you skied down.
J
----There as the hill behind Sendens and the Mowhawk run and then therewas
the run in Seeley Gulch.I can remember night skiing on Parents hill.
One thimg t at was very big in this country was jumping, ski jumping.They
had a big t ssel up
Q the council hall, up here behind the balll
park.They had a big ~~up
there and they would just whoop off there
and boy I'm telling you those boys could jump.Then they had another
jump over here by Seeley and everybody would go to that.That was fantastic
these people would just.
Who would be doing it?
Well they had a little ad-hoc ski club.And they volunteered to build
~\ these tresssles on top of these steep hills.
J'----Anybody that wasn't afraid to go over it.They had a japanese family
from Smithers that were very good.
Joe Eda and his brother pat,Pat Eda.I didn't know Pat but I knew Joe.
they werevery good skiers.Really good.One of these people that really
worked hard and really speerheaded this thing,was Alan Benson.Allan
Benson he was responsilbe for alot of the skIIng that went on in this
country

b~:

t

And he included everybody.
~----Then we used to come bac~ to Hazelton after those sunday ski thing
and they would hold, in the old garage that allen Benson had a big
hall type room up there they used to hold parties and dancesf.up there
we dancsed to the grammaphone then.
_Dh we must say that thoug~that cluing those years we did have an orchestra
and a very good one too.Up in Kispiox it was Roy Wilson and his Wild
Wood orchestra.We all danced to the music of Roy Wilson for years and
years and years.
~---When we couldn't get them we would get Skeena Crossing they were
equally as good.
The Wesley boys.If you got Roy Wilson and one of the Wesley boys together,
dougl~s'Wesley~tthey[·bobh;played
sax.phone .You get the two saxaphones
working together and the rest of the musicaliinstraments.You
had music
really good music.I just love to hear Roy with the two of them.The
wildwood orchetra.They would play all night till five or six oclock
in the morning.Roy would be just poooped right out.
~----They always served a lunch at midnight.
~When
they were held in Hazelton,like the Armisist dance they used to
~ ahve quite a frivolIDuse event
-Where did they ahve them?
t=They used to have them at bertemas, the theater, proir to that there
used to be other halls
hall and Gitamax hall.Those were tyhe three
main places.THats in Hazelton, now In New Ha7.elton where did they have
~Ithem?
~----Just in the halll down by where Francis Willan lived
~But
reflecting back on your original question.As to what life was like?
I rather imagine they we had asimilar life style. You know like when
your in school you do your home work at night,and that was very important.
And then at various times we had thses entertainment of formal dances
and these ski things and all of that.In some respect it was different
because now in mid week if somebody dedecides to wipping off to the
theater, or something,like that.That didn't happen in those days.So
generally speaking you did what ever you find yourself to do.I don't
think it was that much different.We of course had in later years, cars
were very mobile.I remember the first car that dick and I drove around
was my mothers little model a ford it was an american roadster with
a rimble seat in back and she wanted it painted canary yellow.So he
bought this little roadster, in was a1928 american built car.And put
the top down nad the kids in the back and we would cruise the belt
line which was Hazleton to New HAzelton to South Hazelton and across
the bridge thats washed out to Hazelton.I think I found in later years
that it was the most boring trip I ever took becuase we had done it
so many times.When Dick and I drove we took the little roadster and
bash all aorund the coutry.We took the tires off another car that dad
had which was a 1936 ford sedan.It was what they called in those days
balloom tires.It was bigger tires then the model A .I'll tell you one
story about that roadster.We had been to the Kispiox rodeo.The kids
all hooked rides by varios means to get out there.And while every body
was coming back in well they hdQ missed there rides coming back in
so they came along to dick and I and said can Ihave a rideSure jump
in and the next thing you know sombody else came along and said can
I have a ride.Well jump in.And then after a while"it didn't become
jump in it became jump on.Thye were on the running boards and on the
hood and on the front bumper and on the back bumper.It was just a mass
of humanity going down the road with four lttle wheels under it and
Dick peering out between all these bodies trying to steer down the
road.

It was literally a moving mass of humanity down the road, not very
fast mind you.They talk about stuffing people into telephone booths
and volkswagens, I'd like to see them challenge us with a 1928 ford
roadster
and see how many you could get on that and in that and around
that.lt was literally loaded, I don't know how many youngsters, kids.
N---Do
I dare tell john the story about going to New Town one night.
The boys wern't very healthy and of course all those that raod in the car
paid for gas.One time a bunch of us went to New Town with Dick in
this roadster.And he ran out of gas just where the turn off to Hazelton
is now.We pulled the car home. Five miles on the end of a rope.
'J- How many of you?
)\I---There was about six of us.And we got to the top of tyhe hilland
he was afriad to drive down.Because that was the big hi~l then and
with the machine not running we didn't know how the brakes were
going to work or how we were going to stear, becuase up to that
point we had to work pretty hard to get the thing moving.But once
we got to the top of the hill we didn't know if any of us were brave
enough to go down in it or not.
~My father supplied all the gaspoline as fathers usally do and sometimes
we were on rations, of course during the war we were on rations
anyhow, gasoline was rationed and there was a limit to how much
we could run around.As you can see there were alot of similarities
to how thing were in those days to how they were today. Its just
that they go faster and they go further and of course they have
more money.There are more oppuetunities today than there were then
but I don't think that we were deprived of anything.I think we probally
lived a full a life as anyone could of.
maybe fuller?
_Yes I think so, in some respects maybe fuller because one of the
things we did do was enjoy the outdoors alot more, than they do
today.We used to go on a lot of picnics and things like that and
travelling around tyhe country
JV~I can remember going on picnics, family picnics with Rod's parents
and us and our kids.We would bring the whole family and get out
to a fishing spot.Rod"s mother used to bring such fantastic lunches
and all the children in town new that Anna always had a pretty big
lunch and a good lunch.We would always end up with six or seven
young people that were out fishing and would just happen to join
us at meal time.
~Other
things for entertainment.THe
Kispiox valley crowd,
once ayear
would get together and invite everybody out for a picnic.Just having
this food and ice crea~nd
every thing,imagine a youngster getting
in to all of that.ltwas usally on the first of July and every summer
you loked forward to this picnic.ltwas absoluetly great.I don't
think my father or mother ever paid anything.Absolutely
free and
there was literally tones of food, just tones of food, good food.
I remember that just like you wouldn't beleive.I remember one time
I was out there and they had the ball games.They set up these bases
and we were all teying to show off to these beautiful girls.I remember
hitting this ball, I really got this ball, I really hit this thing,I
was trying to get this thing in the river.And I rna like the devil
I wqas just alittle guy, Iwas just a little guy at the time.And
I was running and I was going to make it, a home run, and I could
see that I wasn't goimg to make it but I was going to make it to
third base and I made a bueatiful slide into third base.but, just short of
third base was abig juicy cow pie and I slid right through that.Oh I was
embarsased, I had to go down to the river
and wash off my clothes

J-

I was to embarassed to go back to the picnic, of course I imagine that
evebtually we did. But John thatswas what our impressions~~
that we have of what life was like over a range of years
Things were difficulkt during the hungry thirtiesas they called
itfor all concerned.But I don't ever remember being deprived of
anything.We lived a solid living, good wholsome food,clothes to
where and all that.Without feeling any problems with being like
that.So life was no horro story.It just took all the resources of
our ~arents to insure thatin our very young lives that we were provided
for and that we were br,ought by that that we were brought ~ a wholesome
life.
:T-Bruoght to value more those things that were of value?
~Yes.WE
enjoyed what we did and not in any way did we feel that things
shpould be any different.I think at that time we had quite a sence
of family and community, if you know what I'm trying to say here.Families
were together alot and the comm~nities were together~ lot.