DOCUMENT NAME/INFORMANT: INFORMANT'S ADDRESS: INTERVIEW LOCATION: TRIBE/NATION: LANGUAGE: DATE OF INTERVIEW: INTERVIEWER: INTERPRETER: TRANSCRIBER: SOURCE: CHIEF DICK LATTIE HAZELTON, BRITISH COLUMBIA HAZELTON BRITISH COLUMBIA ENGLISH IMBERT ORCHARD HEATHER YAWORSKI CBC IMBERT ORCHARD COLLECTION TAPE NUMBER: IH-BC.51 DISK: TRANSCRIPT DISC 1176 PAGES: 14 RESTRICTIONS: DOCUMENTS AND TAPES WILL BE "HOUSED IN THE.CANADIAN PLAINS RESEARCH CENTER (UNIVERSITY OF REGINA) AND WILL BE USED PRIMARILY AS PART OF THE RESEARCH BASE FOR THE DEVELOPMENT OF A FILM SERIES DEPICTING THE HISTORY OF CANADA' FROM AN INDIAN POINT OF VIEW." TAPES WILL NOT BE DUPLICATED FOR DISTRIBUTION OR USED FOR BROADCAST PURPOSES EXCEPT WITH PERMISSION OF THE CBC VIA THE SOUND & MOVING IMAGE DIVISION, PABC, VICTORIA, BRITISH COLUMBIA. HIGHLIGHTS: - Explains the uses of various ceremonial instruments. INDIAN HISTORY FILM PROJECT 3 CHIEF DICK LATTIE Dick: The Indian were the only people that was here before the white man ever come. Yes, the first people that ever lived here was ••• Yeah, that's fine, thank you. Just put it on there. Thanks, Tony. That's one of my boys, one of my sons. Imbert: Well then, of course this was a village here a long way back, wasn't it, a long time ago? Dick: Yes, that's right. Imbert: What was it called? Dick: (Indian) they called it. Imbert: What did that mean? Dick: Well, it's a long story. In the olden days, I was told -- I don't remember this myself but I was told all about it -- they call ••• At nights the old people would take a birch bark and they'd put it on the end of a stick and they'd walk along the river, along the river, you know, looking for great big (inaudible). And they'd catch and they'd hook it. He was using this birch bark for light, like pit light. And that's why they call (Indian). That's why they call (Indian) here. That's how this place got its name (Indian). Imbert: The "Kit"(?) means the village of ••. Dick: Yeah that's right. Imbert: And "Max"(?) is the birch bark. \ INDIAN HISTORY FILM PROJECT CHIEF DICK LATTIE 4 Dick: Yeah, the birch bark. They walk along the river to catch salmon or whatever they can get, because at night, you know, the salmon come near the beach, right close. And that's where they could get it and that's how they made their living in the olden days, yeah. Of course they had other ways to catch salmon, you know, but they just done that, you know, just like anyone, you know, they try everything. Imbert: Did you ever hear any stories from way back when the white people first carne here? Dick: Well, I've heard quite a little bit about it when they first come here. The first village we had was down here, right at the turn of the road. I guess you know it, just past the school here. Well, that's where our first village was, and I can just remember that and that was a good many years ago. Yeah, that's where our first village was. And when the white man started to come in here, start settling around here ••• So the olden people they moved up here on reserves and they put a line up on the hill there so the white man won't go by. And it's still that way right today. If they didn't do that the whole thing would have been taken up. Imbert: The village then was down at the point? Dick: Right down, yeah, right there at the junction there. Imbert: Well, who was the first man, the first white man to corne up here? Dick: A fellow by the name of Charlie Hemmings(?), and I know him. Yes, I know him, I seen him. I was pretty young but I seen him. INDIAN HISTORY FILM PROJECT 5 CHIEF DICK LATTIE Imbert: Dick: What did he come up here for? Well he came up here to start a store. Start a store. Imbert: Is that before Hanken came up? Dick: Way before Hanken came up, way before Hanken came up, yeah. Because Charlie Hemmings(?) was a ..• Well, Arthur knows Charlie Hemmings(?) just like I do. Charlie Hemmings(?) had a store just right up here at the foot of the hill. Imbert: Right where the church is now? Dick: Just past it, just past it. That's where he had his little log house there, yeah. Imbert: Where did Hanken have his trading post when he came over here? Dick: I just forget now. Imbert: Was it over the other side maybe? Or was over on this side? Dick: I just forgot now. I didn't hear too much about Hanken, but I know Charlie Hemmings(?), I know him. Yeah, because my mother is related to Charlie Hemmings' (?) wife. That's how I come to know a lot about Charlie Hemmings(?). But I didn't hear too much about the Hankens, no. But I knew they were here though. I heard that they were here. INDIAN HISTORY FILM PROJECT CHIEF DICK LATTIE 6 Imbert: How did it get to be called Hazelton? Dick: Hazelton? Well, they just, from what I learned from people they call, there's a lot of hazels, hazel trees up here, see. And that's how come they call it Hazelton, Hazelton. There's a lot of hazel trees up here, nothing but hazel trees, hazelnut trees, you know. Here, before the town was here, it was nothing but hazelnut trees. That's why they called it Hazelton. They didn't call it Hazelnut but they called it Hazelton. Imbert: When you were growing up in those early days, who were the important Indian people here? Who were the chiefs and so on that you remember? Dick: Well, there, the biggest chief here, the head chief here, is my great-grandfather, my father's father, and his name is Katamaldo. His pole is outside here. Imbert: Tell me about him, and anything that he did and that sort of thing. Dick: Well, he was one of the biggest chiefs here. There's no other chief higher than he was because he was one of the first chiefs. And he done everything that the natives would do. He was a pretty wealthy man. There were other chiefs but they weren't as wealthy as he was, because he was the first one that ever had a pole carved on the Hazelton Reserve and it's still standing yet outside here. One of the first poles carved. So he was still the chief and Katamaldo still the chief today, although he's a young man. He inherited the old man's position. Yeah. Katamaldo today is Tommy Dazel he's a young man, very young fellow. INDIAN HISTORY FILM PROJECT 7 CHIEF DICK LATTIE Imbert: Katamaldo was his native name and the other is his white man's name? Dick: Yeah, Katamaldo, yeah. Katamaldo. Imbert: Can we hold it a minute, Ian? I guess that thing is making a hell of a noise. Dick: ••• because that's very important thing, you know. Oh yes. Yeah, I'll have more time after five 0' clock. (Break in tape) No, might find them. Yeah, okay that's fine. (Break in tape) Imbert: I wanted to ask you about ... Do you remember anything about the story of the famous city that was here, city of (name), or however you pronounce it? Way, way back, a legend to that. Dick: (Name) that's how you pronounce that, (name). Imbert: (Name). Dick: That's it. I don't know anything about that, because that's down on the Nass River. Some other old fellow knows more about it than I do, because ••• Imbert: Well, I heard that it was just across the river here. Dick: (Name)? Imbert: Yes. Dick: No. It's, (name) is down at Nass River.·· That's·· where they call it (name). INDIAN HISTORY FILM PROJECT 8 CHIEF DICK LATTIE Imbert: What does it mean, (name)? Dick: Well, it's a big flat there, big flat. (Name), that's a flat. Imbert: Yes. Well, I heard of (name). You haven't heard of that? Dick: (Name)? No. Imbert: That's a legendary place that was over up this way. Did they do much, when you were growing up in the village? Was there still quite a lot of dancing and ceremonies? Dick: Oh yes. Oh yes. Yes, I watched lots of them, yeah. Imbert: Where would they hold these? Dick: Well, they hold them in, specially in old Katamaldo's house, because he had one of the biggest houses. That's the first chief. Of course there's other houses there, you know. But old Katamaldo, anything went on they always put it up in old Katamaldo's place because he was the head chief. They can't do anything over him. Anything to be done, they do it in his house. Yes. Imbert: And did he have a great big room there that •. ~? Dick: Oh yeah, he had a great big room. Imbert: Was it ••• (Break in Tape) Dick: ••• it was just in one great big house like this. And open fireplaces, yeah,open fireplaces. INDIAN HISTORY FILM PROJECT CHIEF DICK LATTIE Imbert: Would it be bigger than this? Dick: Oh yes, much bigger than this. Imbert: Where was that? 9 Dick: It was just up on the hill here, just up on the hill right by the old (name) Hall now, that's where it was. There was four big houses there, great big houses. Yeah, and that's where all the totem poles used to be, outside of those houses. That's where this totem pole used to be, just outside of old Katamaldo's house. Imbert: On top of the ••• Dick: Just up here a little way. Just past the church and a little hill goes up. Well, it's right on top of there. That's where these totem poles were. Imbert: Oh, that's very interesting, because that would be, they would be right up there in the background of these big houses overlooking the town. Dick: Yeah, that's right. Imbert: And then a lot of these things that are in here now, the ceremonial robes and things, they were used in the ••. Dick: In the ceremonial dances. Feasts and one thing or another. If a fellow was going to take, inherit a person's, a chief's name or something like that. Or a chief died, well, there's somebody going to inherit everything he's got. All his blankets, and his rattles, and everything. Then they put these INDIAN HISTORY FILM PROJECT 10 CHIEF DICK LATTIE feasts up and they do it in a big chief's house, because he's the one that, if he says, if he agrees to it he says, "Yes" and that's that. (Break in Tape) •.• he's still around. Oh yeah, he comes down here every now and again. He should be around pretty soon. Imbert: Can you remember anything that happened in Hazelton in those old days, any incident with people and so on that ••• A lot of trucks in here (laughs) .•• Yes, did you go into Babine very much? Dick: Well, I've been there several times, yeah. Imbert: Did the Babine people come over here very much? Dick: Oh yes, oh yes. They used to come here all the time. Yeah, they used to come down here and sell fur, you know, oh yeah. And they live around here for a few days. They usually camp out here at Two Mile, you know, in tents. And when they get tired of camping they go back to Babine again, yeah. Imbert: In the olden days before the white man came, was there a lot of trade between the Babine and the natives here? Dick: Oh yes, oh yes. They traded things off, you know, yeah. Imbert: What sort of things would be traded? Dick: Well, like berries and salmon, and moose hides, and oh, a lot of different things. Imbert: Oolachan grease? Rick: Well no, they got them from the Coast. They got them from the Coast, the grease and the fish egg. We don't have any here. INDIAN HISTORY FILM PROJECT 1 1 CHIEF DICK LATTIE Imbert: They would go all the way down for that, would they? Dick: Oh yes. They go all the way down and sometimes the Nass River people come up here and they meet in here, you see. That's how they traded things in the early days. Because I had myoId father-in-law -- he just died here four, five years ago and he used to tell me a lot about this. That's how I come to know how they traded things. Imbert; Well, in the old days, this was always hundred years more, there was a village here, or for perhaps a trading between the different tribes? Dick: Yeah, that's right. That's how they got along. Oh, that's how they got ••• What we haven’t got here the Nass River people has it and they bring it up. And then sometimes our people, my people, we go down to Nass River and trade things off for the likes of grease and fish eggs and oolachans, because that's what the Nass River put up. And us up here we put up berries, and dry meat, bear meat, moose meat, anything, goat meat. Well, they take that down there to trade off with the grease and oolachans and fish eggs, and seaweed, and likes of that. Imbert: Tell me about in the dances, because we would like to perhaps to record some of these songs, you could tell us about what they used. What about the, what are those big things over there that you blow through? What are they used for? What are they called? Dick: Well, they used them in ceremonial dance for calling one another. Might be a party inside and there would be a bunch of people in there. There wouldn't only be one Hazelton -' - ---------- INDIAN HISTORY FILM PROJECT 12 CHIEF DICK LATTIE tribe, there would be tribes from allover, like (name). When they put up a great big feast, you know, they call different reserves altogether to meet you at a certain time. And that's when they use those ceremonial whistles, they call them, to call one another. Each time they blow one of those things it means something. And the older people knew every meaning each time they blow one of those things. But the younger people doesn't know that, no. There's a meaning each time they blow that thing and they go and answer one another. Take for instance, the chief might be inside and he blows the horn. And the fellow outside, he'd answer him. Just like talking to one another, that's what they use those things for. And they don't blow them just for nothing, just for fun, they •.• It means something each time they blow it. Imbert. Would they blow it with a certain signal? Dick: Oh yes, yes, yes. So many blows and then they answer. Just the same way with a gun in the early days. If a fellow was lost, well, he'd go and fire two, three shots. And then if this fellow hears it held answer him. They'll just keep on firing one another until they, if he's lost. Imbert ~ What other songs would they use in the ceremonies? Dick~ Well, they just use ceremonial whistles, you know, to call each other and sometimes they use their voice. If they don't use the ceremonial horns they use their voice. Imbert: Getting less and less cars outside so we're all right now. Well, when would they use the rattles?