Wednesaay July 10/85

Interview with vORA GREY
I was born in Oceanic ~annery when my mother was working
down there. In 1922, she was working at Oc anic vannery when
I was born. It no longer exists, now, you know because when
I filled in my form for registering myself, I had to put Oceanic
~annery. I 'as originally from Hazelton.
DO YOU BAVE ANY BROTHE~S OR SISTERS?
The ones that-are alive today;
ALL OF THE ?
Annie died in 1938. I think she died in '38, she was one
of my sisters. Then I have Martha Ritzdale, Tommy died too,
and Smokey and I have John, now too. Gharlotte. You mean all
my real brothers and sisters. Johnny Wilson was another one.
And Tommy he died Tommy and Johnny was Smokey's brother, Johnny
died long time ago. I couldn't remember the year that he died.
DO YOU

AVE ANY GHILD~N?

Yea, " orge, ljeatrice, and Les
OW 'WULD YOU DESCRIBE YOU SELF?
Just like any ordinary human b ing(laughter) Is that what
you mean, like a busy person. Oh I'm just busy all the time.
I'm involv d in everything.
hen there is something is going
on at the church, we donate a whole bUDch of things.
en
there is something going on at Gitanmaax and like right
now.So we just keep ourselves. If we are not h re, we are up
at the trapline building a trapper's cabin.
We were workingfor many years. I think in 1940, we wer
working at the cannery. Then duripg the years we moved to Port
Edward and then 1 worked in the kitchen there. I t ink it was
1944 when I started working as a f unkie for 15 people that
were eating in t.hecookhouse and I worked th re f'or- awhile
and in1950 I went down to amoo I cook d there for 19 girls for
about two months.
HAT IS NAMOO?
Namoo is a cannery dOwn the coast halfways from Vancouver
and Prince Hupert that's where it i.
It is no longer exists
now either.
obody works, there. Peopl stop ther for
mending nets md st uftf' like that but loon' t think anybody goes
there now. I cooked there for two months and I started at the
hospital I've been working at the Hospital, I started in 1949
and t,en Ileft the hospital then I went down to Fort Edward.

-2DID YOU COOK DONN IN PO T EDWARD TOO?

Yes, I worked down t'ere for 1 worked there as a flunkie.
HAT DOES A FLU~~IE

DO?

Well, th Y help in the kitchen and they ~et up like
e did the vegetables and we cleaned up the d~ning room and
we washed dishes after ev rybod~ ate. Then we h Iped cook and
prepare for the v~getables for the next day. There is a lot
of work involved.
WHAT DO YOU RE iEMBER WHEN YOU WERE A CHILD?

WHAT DID YOU DO?

A a child, oh, thatwas quite a ways back, I couldn't really
remember. The only thing I r~~ber
was I was in th first old
hospi tal, I guess t ha t ' .8,1 when I had my tonsils that was in
1930 and I remember I didn't know how to speak English and I
couldn!t tell the nurse that the nexterson
on t
next bed kept
on pouring wateron my bed and she'd ring for the nurse, you
know, and I'd get a licking. I think that's theonly reason I
can remember, bec use I'd get a spanking every time this other
p rson would throw water on my be«, that"was in the 1930's
I moved to Edmonton for 4 years and we came back after the flood
in 1937.
WHAT KIND

OF GA,vJESDID YOU PLAY?

We played a lot of soft all.
e called ours Ives the
Hazel ton ome Team. I played 1st .tjaseall the time. 'I'hat
was such a long way back lcan't r memb r either.
DO YOU ~MEN1BER

ANY OF 'rHE

LAYERS?

YEs, vi Smith, azel l::Hackstock,llice vu Ldoe (No~lrirothr)
Maggi 1 right, Emma Hilbach(ouF catcher), Hazel Brown(our
pi tcher) Alice ~'ox(shortstop) and then there was Vi Smith
I don't remmmber playing with vi too mnch, but she was on the
t am too.
HO DID YOU GUYS PLAY?

We pLayed Moricetown, vedarvale, Ki twanga, yes, we werrt
to different villages, we played Kispiox and Irene Courneyer
and Violet brown used to play for the Kispiaoc Team. And
we used to pla~ out by Kispiox, Moricetown, Kitwanga, ~edarvale
and Skeena vrossin •
We used to be the same way you are now (referring ~o travelling
to tourna~ents) I don't remember Kitwancool having any sports
or Glenvowell either.

-3-

WHAT KIND OF EQUIPMENT DID YOU USE?
Yes we had our own equipm nt, we had gloves-but hardly
anyone had gloves because there wasn"t too much money in those
days. 1e didn't ven wear gloves w.en we were playing ball
maybe just the catcher had a whole outfit, as long as she was
pDotected. That was Emma and she was real good, Emma Hilbach
DID YOU HAVE BALLS AND BA S?
Yes, we ilidhave balls and bats,we had our own equipment
~ometimes ~harles Patsy used to coach us. vharles use to
coach us mostly.
SO IT WAS UP THERE -nORA LONG TIME (BALLPARK)?
Yes, it was donated by the Chief councillor, I forg t
who was vhief councillor when they donated that land to
Tohn Smith, ~harlie vliff'rd and 1 couldn't remember Who the
other Derson was when they ~onated that piece of land thatwas
open for the ~hole of Hazelton, including the people rrom
Hazelton village nd the people of Gitanmaax village. It was
open for everyone for sports.
They called it Totem Park since the construction?
(Refers to her mother) N01 I don't think it was always
Totem Park. It was from the tlme they mJved the Totem Poles
UjJ there, t.hat they called it that,
WHERE DID THEY lVIOV~THE TOTEM POLES ./."RONl?
They moved it from ~here the Gita aax hall used to be
( on the hill above the Anglican vhurch) They used tobe on
the edge of thehill all lined up on the river bank-which was
washed out by the big flood.
Ow FAR UP DID THE RIVE~ GET IN HAZELTON?
"'0
the street down here(Government Street) Ther was a
lot or houses sown there (where the other street used to ee)
(where the riveris now)

THE ST B T '{ASVAScTED A.vAY?
Yes and all the houses that were down th re [,otwaeied
except for Jeff ',/ilson'
shouse, usee t o be the Iudson tjayhouse
It us d tobe down by the riv r they moved it during the flood
to wh re it is now. rh re was two houses saved-Jeff ilson and
~im Otters. That was the only big buildnng they saved. (The
Anglican church was always tnere?)
Yes tne church '>lasalways there and no tne viver never cam
up that high.
OW DID T IS JEi,TE TO A DISASTE

THAT WOULD ~ f"i: E

'0~ ?

ell 'WEtS
if'tto hbappene d now the ampac
.
whole Wroad
t WO·.l' 0 b if .Jne
e washed away (I just wanted to have a rel±.onship

-4-

of how extreme this disaster was). It won't happen again
because of the program here they installed a rock barrier,
along th rivLr bank. If you go down to the river you eould
see the rock pil s.
\IHATKIND OF :3UILDINGS WE'iE ALONG THE RIVER?
It was their own h)mes along the river{asks her mother)
Yes just homes.
ANY STORES?
~ell that was wnere theold ludson Bay used to be, on the
other side of the street. That was where the Budson Bay used
to be.
DO YOU HEME E THE ODD HUDSON BAY'S STORING PLACE? GUNS
AND AMMUNITION?
Oh theone v1ith stor wall, I don t remember maybe my
mother. Yes there was a strorehouse and they did keep there
ammunition and guns and liquor, they didnt have a liwuor store
back then. It was a warehouse.
t

C
YOU DESaRIBE ROV' IT W S TO LIVE HERE AS OPPOS :J TO
LIVI G r::OW WITH ALL OUR CONVENIENCES?
1

Like long timeago, Yes, well it used to be without
elect~icity or running water. Ve had to pack our water from
the r~ver.
\e had coal oil lamps, gas lamos, gas iron and We used
to that kind of l~ving. I dreamed of electricity that time
just the rich people could afford that. It wasn't too long ago
when Sargemt's had th ir own plant.
WAS IT LIKE THE ONES (GEl\TE
ATOR) IN
AND TOWN OFFIC·?

-;>

ONT OF T·TEBANK

YES, but those are frmID the old plant Mr. Sargent's
generator was behind Lee Cheung laundremat. That's when they
picked up in electricity, after Sargents PI nt was put down by
the river. Down by Helen En~'s place. So you should take a
picture of it7 it is a histor~cal site. It's still there. After
the electric~ty came in, thBt's when _e Chung started the laundry
business. It used to be where Sunrise cafe is now. That's here
h had his laundry. I used to wOrk for Lee Chung. I ironed
towels, sheets, pillows (cover) for a dollar a day, that was in
1942, between 40-42.
ith th heavy cast irons. They us d to
have them all around the stove.
WHAT DID YOU USED TO BUY?

WITH THE DOLLAR A DAY?

NO, we never bought anything.

'Ie

would give our money to .•
lIom

-5and Mom would look after the t ings we'd have to buy. She'd buy food
with it, cause mon y was scarce back those days. Whatever we made
down tb~ cannery, and I~d work for about two months and I'd clear
a~out 95 dollars. W used to give our money to tom cause she
would buy the things we'd need. And we never got any help from
the government. Our dad deserted us when we were small and we
had to grow up to look after ourselves.
hatever we made we'd
give to Mom, Smokey, Tommy, and all of us. We'd work during the
summer and make enough for the winter. We had potatoes, carrots,
all the vegetables in a big gard~n. And Mom had one with black
currants, strawberries, and rhubarb.
om would pr serv th m to
get us through the winter.
WHAT OTHE~ FOODS DID YOU E T?
Oh we ate t
way we still do.
ild ~e t, if someone gave us
some. Moosemeat and ~other would jar that too. Because we
didn't have a de p fre ze back then.
would buy a whole half
of b ef from across th river near Neil John St rritt lives now.
I canned that for ~
wint r, no deep freez.
a nothing. \
eat about the same that w do now, I work so hard for my childr n
(Cora's mom speaking) I didn't want to se the- 0 hungry.
V1HE

DID YOU GO TO SC OOL?

Edmonton. I only wentthere for about 3 years, then I ca~ back.
I only went to grade 4. I arned as I grew up. (You d~dn't
attend L8-Jak school) My sister, Martha, went there. She and
ommy got to grade 8. That's as far as they could go and th y
d go and they wouldn't educate them anymore. I tried hard
to get them into high school, but they wouldn't 1 t them. It
was just lately that they built this school here. It took meetings and meetings all th time to try to get the people to giv
up the~ land for tb~ school. That's 11 reserve land wh re t
~&I
is now. Th y finally 1 t them built a school there. So
our kids could go to school with Clem. They finally let them
build a school there. So our kids could go to school with the
white children.
WHERE WAS THE SCHO·LS BEFORE?
It ~as right over h re, by th church. The oth re on was where
as e orrison stays.
called it Day school, b sid th church
and it was run by the Anglican minister. 'rhepublic school was
a~ ~osi 's but it was down on the Hudson ~ay corner before, it
wa~
Il log cabin (mother of vora speaking). 'N~ used to hav
pencils and paper, nut I didn't go to school, too long, ~y mot~ r
di d when I was 11, so 1 didn't go anymore.
fter rnyMother di ed ,
my aunt took m out to the trapline
My aunti was mar ied to a
trapp r, so e were out at the trapline most of thetime. ~efore
~hrist s, and, aft r New Years, we'd go out.
1.VERE
TT-TRRE
ANY SPECr L EVET\lTS? T-1ATTOOK PLACE SPORT
prO!l.r:EER
DAYS?
t
,S

A D T~AT.

-6No. that was just r-ecerrt t y ,
on that street down here.

They did crLe br-rt.e

July 1st -tfown

rlEMEMBRACE DAY?
hat was just recently.

After the 1944 ~r.

1HAT ABOUT MAY D Y?
Th hospital used to cel brate May Day. May 12. They used to
invite people up there and have a display outside the hospital.
When I first started at t.he Wrinch Hospital t you know they used
to have the whites in t»ant and the I~ns
in the_back. And
th y had a doubl doors and we couldn't go through the door.
I us d to peek through to see what was on the oth r side. Th
natives went through the back door and th whites through th.
th front entranc •
HOW

S 'rHESAL

4

Y?

I was nrking 30¢ an hour. When I was working for the hospital,
I was paid '104.00, that's what was making (ev ry week or 2 weeks?)
No that was for a whole month. Until they hir d some white people
ther , and they w re making 115.00, and I was still making 104.
So I went right in ther -you know I used to sp ak up for myself
th n. I'm doing the same work, I don't see why I don't get th
same pay. ~ell, she said starting next payday you'll be getting
five dollars raise every month till it gets to the same pay. I
don't know how it happened, but I was put in their sam pay.
I don't know how it happened, but I was put in their sa~e place.
two white ladies, th~y just walked off the job. They never came
back cause they put me in the~ place. Th y never cam back.
ERE YOU WORKII\GEVER SINCE THEN?
Y s I work d there for 34 years till about a y ar ago. February '83 when 1 r tir d. Hut befor that, th n, when, Dr.
Vhiting cam in 1953 we started our hymn sing. Th sa~e thing
happened allover again. The whites would stand on one side and
the natives on th other side. Then they ask me why I didn't go
to hymn sing. 1 said I don't see why
should go, yoU ar standing there and we'r standing h reo After that we stand together.
Th sam thing with the dining room we had. We had blue plastic
and th y_had pink plastic dishes. They put us in one little room
th r was 16 of us natives, as domestic work rs. They had us in
this littl room, and I don't know'how many troubles they had in
their dining room. They'd seperate our dishes and wetd eat apart
watil Dr. Ihiting said w '11 eat together. I didn't know what
to think, cause it felt lik we were always pushed aside. I fought
my WRy t hr-ough that. (Laughs )
SO D • WHITING W S VE Y UNDE STANDING?
Oh, he was a wonderful man.
e was a good person. He was your
doctor, when you >'ere born. (laughter)
On y ar wa n w were having a picnic, we had big cans
or bowls of potato salad and lots of cold cuts. Dr. Evans

-7-

wae there, I don't rem mber th year.
ell Dr. '.
hi ting said ~
'Don't forget th cookS~Dr. Evens said Oh no they don't matt r.
Dr. 'ihiting said 'you know they ar themost important
,caus th yare handling thefood, were eating, they are the most
important. They Rre feeding our patients~
DID YOU 1,iA"YOU
OWN CLOTHH G?
No, moth r us d to take carE of our clot ing. No I nev r
Gid make my own clothing.
Ih n I maae enough mon y, I tri d
to buy my own .,
cloth s.
DID YOU

TTEl ID ANY DANn-;;;S?

Oh yes, I just loved dancing. "le w nt to the old
Jitanmaax Hall and the old Hagwilg t hall.
'iROWAS PIAYIt·G?
Either the ildwood or the appy Six. The Happy Six was
Haz lton and David Ire n was with th band, George Simpson
h mied, an ~ob ~impson that's Mercy Lorin's dad. ~illiam
Wale and I forgot the other~o (EDnote-Phillip Turner was on of
t e members too)
That was th
appy ~ix.
Then oy ilson, her rap the Vildwood Orchestra, that was
the hall used to be.
',t
T DID YOU USED TO DO tHEN YOU HE
rlA'r OT lEI.
YOUNG?
ACTIVITIES?
Well Vi had our meetings for th
Haz Iton Hom T aql
and
~ Dt to Church. The ~hurch Armv Gnd had a lot of Dake
Sales, you know ~o rai~e money for mhe church, you know.like ~.
e G t0day~_ e used to .dig potatoes for a dollar a day, and
ironing for Le for a dollar a ~ay.
A JUT T:E c n
TION ft. "lYYET?

':1 "T DJ YOt, ill~Er
tj~

\,;LLED ' E S

\,;'1

A

Y? IT ,{ASN'T

0, t+ier-e wes a Salvation Army and a chur-ch
Army. 'I'hechurch
Army us d to b up by rthur Mowatt's old place, that' wh re
the Church
y us d to b.
Mother used to belong to the White
vr-o ss , thet's the name of t.h
group. Th fuite -Cr-o se w r-s like
the Salvation rmy's Home League. My 'l1otherused to h .L[' them
all ltlhet.i.ma ,

DID

or USED TO iATC BASEB lL TOO"
T

{

y e, r ally good gam s, Charli

Smith,Simon

uldo , .all~

Ds n s but that was later.

DID T ~y

US

Tc-IEAI. FO T UP HERE?

That was just let ly, hey mom, Yes(mom repli s) that was
just lately. Bill Sargant ownee a p~am and us d this strip

-8-

DID YOU TIAVE TrAY

F

SCHOOL?
d i f'f

No, the fTovernment sent us to

r nt school.

artha

w nt to Le -Jack, Vi Smith w nt to Port Alberni, they sent
me to Edmonton.

:r; don

t

t r vemembe r-

Icried all the wa~ I missed the
what grades.

WAS PREJUDIS

BAD BACK

TIountains,

HEr?

l~h yes, it was pr tty bad, I had to k p mys If working
b cause Allen had just left me, I dOn'T even no why he 1 ft me,
h just took off and h took Uhubby(George) with him. I w nt
to Port Edward, I worked there to raise money to find George.
I wnet to Vancouver and found George in a Catholic Scho 1. I
rais d about 400 dollars and w nt do~n by plane, it cost 58
one way.

WHAT KIND OF TRANSPORTATION

AS USED AROUKD H' RE?

Train and carR maybe the only person to have a taxi was
ola Pop Benson, not Allen Benson, his dad, he ran the taxi.
It was big car, a station wagon. It gpt fancier asfue years
go by.
agons were us d we went out to 4 mile, on wagons
to pick potatoes. Ben Wale ordan Smith worked out there; we
we got a dollar a day, but we never got th money until they
sold everything. When th y sold ev rything. When they sond
everything(potatoes) we'd~t paid. Joe StephLns worked out
there too. 'Vehi tch d hiked out to work on wagons it wasn't
aey.
H

DID YOU GE'r 0 KISPIOX ' EN YOU

1

LAYED SOFTBALL

ard Maeshall? Marshall Bros. had a transport truck and
it had canvass on it to c over-, The baseball players used it
too.
B long as w
had 25 c nts each, w us d to gs t excited.
all wash our slacks and rur-ning shoes, to get ready for sports
e didn't run to t he store to buy new this and that, we just
washed ourslacks. He us a to wait for us all Q~.
~ packed
our lunches too. Sometimes our club would make the men
sandwhiches. W 'd all stop by th creek or something. We had
th M~ple_Leafs, we had the Hometeam and the'Buckskins and
the Hometeam had a Men's team too. I hardly rememb r soccer
that was just recently. It was just ~aseball and softball
DO YOU REMEMBER ANYTHING ABOUT THE S

ON GUN ANOO!J:STORY?

No thatwas too lone ago. Maybe Mom knows. No that was too
long ago. I remember when he gave himself up.
HAT IDID THEY DO TO HIM?
Th Y gave him a trial I think"that's what happen d"
hat was the verdict He had a lawyer, he's free, he wasn't
guil ty, I was read; it smmewhere (n ws pape r back then)

e'd

-9-

m E YOU SAD

0 S='i.
THE OLD HOSPITAL GO?

it, at ~fi~ S ~~tr~,S~Het.e8.~n~yt.a~p
~ r~8ff? s~f1da£hg1818:unk of
~wod stove sticking out of the junk pile. At first itwas an
old wood and coal stove then th y made intm a oil stove, nev r
got a n wfstove. I never got a new stove till the new hospital
I used thepame stove and the same no crack lids on top, nd it
b~.ed really good.
WHATELSE DO YOU REMEMBER AT THE OLD HOSPITAL?
Oh we us d to nave lots of fun.
A LOT OF PRAC TICAL JOKES?
Especmally Mary ::>mi
the You know Har-o
Ld had his rubbe s
he always takes them off at the back door. I didn't now
Mary had nail d them to the floor.
arold put them on and
couldn't nove. Nailed th m to th floor and cOUldn't move.
Another time waa wh n I had 8 or 11 pies, r'r-ank
Pipe
ca:nealong and sai_:"Dare me to ddli;tf'
And I said "I dare y ou too"
I was just cleaning ~self up and he picked one up and he
threw it allover my face. Then Mary Moor came around and
she scooped up onear ran aft r ~rank outside and we caugh
him and rubbed it in his ~ac~.
Another tim they wer oper-a
ti. ng a patient and he died
on thetable. 1 forgot whQ was tne nurse oh th floor, she
had to deliver a tray. ;:'0 the doctor told herto put the
atient on fluids ••• sh ju~t dropped td tray andran out,
when sne saw the body \as cover d. We did sOme~azy things
HAT KIND OF SLAY

DllDYOU HAVEI' HOW HIGH 'vi S rr,

I think about 1200 I still have theold stu~s. You know
th y Dever believed me when I told them how long I was working
I had ~y old stubs andpictur s of me in uniform, then they
put me down in 1950 when I st8red. I was ther in 1949
Emma Hilbach and Martha was working there.
OTHER CHANGES?
Like when Publ ic "~orkswaf',11f re before it noved up to
Town.
11 it used to be wh r Fanny and vherlie Smmth
live now. They had a building taere, then they nov~d it to
w Town.
That was a change and Alice's store on t~lecor-norused to be the Dawson's Hotel he had partm nts and Hot Is.
I think he might have a clothing store too. The Police
vtation was always t re, but I think it used to be at Sams'
Store(Sunrise) One of'ri.cen,
Haz Ltvon was a little bit
small r I remember one alloween night, Neil painted the
polic mans horse thatwas white-black. They used to have lots
of fU,1.
T

W

1

WH T KINDOF POLITICS WAS A OUND?
CCF, that was like the NDP.

I remember ~harles Patsy used

-10to attend all the meetings. You know h couldn't vote. He was
interested in politics andwhat was going. I think the vCF
helped this area.
WAS T~R:~

A h6 \D COU CIL,

~ 0

r 'rHE RESERVE?

i think they wer calle« directors I think they did the same
job as councillors anyway.
T.V.,

RADIOS,

TELEPHIDNE*DID

IT

HELP 0

HA PER YOU?

W 11 we used to listen to thera~io. We list n to music-mostly
country and western. They had radio shows and music. Then we
had Hank Evans who came twice a year maybe once,at the Gitanmaax
Hall.
,'iJ

WHEN DID THE FIRST

MOVIE COME TO HAZEL'rON?

r

Before Beertemas, .ueD'e<!rs
owned thebho+all.
remember too much about the movi s.

But I don't