Page 1

Tape Interview-Mr.

Martian

Starrett

WHAT WERE YOU SAYING ABOUT YOUR GRANDFATHER?
Well I don't know what year it was. But after coming here
he served years
into

company

on a toe-boat

in towing

logs

mill.

WHO WAS THIS?
Henerry

Smith.

AND HE WAS WHAT?
He was my grandfather.

And he must of lived in Seattle/

cause my mother was born there/

that was the oldest child

of the family. And my grandmother
name was Stevens.

like my mothers mother

And she came to Whit River and she taught

school there.
Where's

White River?

Well Whi te River is some where near S~,,/Sound / I don't know
J

where exaclley where
different

people

it is/ but I heard

it's there somewhere/

And my mother had a brother
this Hazelton-He

of it since.

From

I can't tell you.

that has whole lot to do with

counts a lot on this Hazelton

History

too.

Then he took the same job as his father/ he even drove the
same captian of the same boat for years/

till his eye sight

failed him.
WAS HE C.B. SMITH?
He was C.B. Smith. And he almost-for
he was Captian of the t~-boat

2shfl~.

some reason rather
That was blowen up

some where near Nanimo/

with a load of powder on. But

somehow rather he wasn't

cha~r

he just missed

that. And another

he witnes~Jthe

wreck

newspaper

with that trip wether and
thing that same C.B. Smith/

of the old Beaver.

in Hazelton

I saw it in the

that's count of it. When he died

that was brought in on it that he witness the Old Beaver/
the Old Boat of Hudson Bay Boat that came Qro\Ard. -4-lv.. Wit'
NOW HE WAS YOUR UNCLB?
That was my uncl~/

that's how I came to go frDm~~ere~±9

the fall of 1909 to go to Hazelton
I was trapping

here

There twenty-one/

in theSk~d

and my mother

the Ridely Home. Old~~~~~

to learn the fur trade.

the same darn country.
was teaching

school at

lot of the children

from

Page 2
Prince Rupert

at that time, there be no school

in Prince

Rupert they went over there, white children.

You Knowwent

over there to have some kind of an education.

And then

later we took the steam boat from Prince
Hazelton.

I remember

Rupert up to

it took us five days to make that

191 miles or whatever

it is, and I know it was 75¢ a meal

on the boat. We pulled out late in the afternoon
And I remember

I remember.

the dock that day, before we p~lled

out I

see an old grey haired man standing

on the dock and a lot

of people talking

and

to him. Deck hands

one thing

and another.

My mother was with me and said who's that

old gentleman

taking

all that attention?

Well, that's old

Captian John Erving. Well gee-wez

I said I never saw him

before. but I remember

in Victoria,

seen-but

the house

but I never

that was the only time I saw him. And I was too

young to go and talk to that group of men, they were all
elderly men.
WHAT DO YOU REMEMBER

ABOUT THIS FIRST TRIP UP THE SKEENA,

HOW DID IT IMPRESS YOU? CAN YOU REMEMBER

ANY DETAILS

ABOUT IT?
Well I remember
Rupert,

we left late in the afternoon

from Prince

and we tied up about 20 miles to Port

tied up at the dock there overnight.

. We

Know why? I guess

they were taking on cargo, I don't know.
THIS WAS AT PORT
At Port

?

. But to make a long story short.

not mention

the captions

name it wouldn't

the steamers

name was a Port Simpson.

of booze aboard for Black-Jack
Jack McDonalld

in Hazelton.

was an old timer from the

trip in October,

And they wanted

falling,

supplies

and one thing or another.
this captian,

I went to the South

My early days. And it was the last

they thought

the water

and I think

and I didn't know at the

time they were his sons, but they were.
part school in victoria.

Black-

Dawson.

And I go to school with Billy Mc Donalld,

on account

be well. But

And it had 70 tones

McDonalld

another one his sons in Victoria,

I better

it might be the last trip
and the nitroe getting

of course to Hazelton,
But Blackjack

frosty.

bacon

Mc Donalld

went to

say forget about that stuff. He got him half

Page 3
lit up I suppose.

I'll give you $1.50 if you take carge

booze up for me, the heck with that other stuff you
could come back and get that next time. So there were 70
tones of booze went to Hazelton,
nothing

for BlackJack

for the Hudson Bay company.

Although

McDonalld,

it was the

Hudson Bay's boat. And the only thing to
was a few pieces of farm
where the capsine
ANYTHING

the load

stuck out in the dock behind

was, and that's a fact.

ELSE ABOUT THAT TRIP?

Yes, Where we got up to just about where Tide Water was
I remember

seeing seals that you see. And I don't wether

it was the next day or what day it was, but we passed what
was called the Little

Cayon, all it was, was just a little

bit of rocks on each side of the river. And then soon after
that we passed

the Lawarn Creek.

I know one of the watires

that's Lawarn

Creek were passed.

It's isn't worth while

going out to see though. So we kept on eating supper.
Then look back on it into the mountain

a few buildings

at a mouth of a Creek there. So there been a plastic

Creek

I think. And then one night we turned-if

forget which night

it was. We tied up below the Cayon.=And

the idea was to

get it ear ley in the still of the morning
no wind. Because

when there was

there been recks in there the Old Mount

Royal steam boat had been wreck there only a few years
before

she turned-the

she broken

wind had turned her sideways

and

in two over rock and they lost an awful lot.

I guess there lives too. But at night they tire to tie
up at a wood yard or a wood pilled wood lot on the banks
of the river to take on after dark where they put on kind
of a search
quardom

light, and the deck hands would load this

on and pack on stick at time. Just like ants one

would go and get on stick of wood and then another
would get another
re-passing
mountain

felow

stick of wood. And they be passing

like the

. Phile Macasel,

years ago. And I remember

getting

and

biggest
pretty close

up up Hazelton,

we were down somewhere

Skeena Crossing

is now. Where the railway-bridge

National

crosses the Skeena. Above that somewhere

bridge

somewhere

around
Canadian

on the left bank, the right side going up. I noticed

a

Page 4
cross, and it was quite new. And I said to somebody-you
been up here before?
that

Oh yes. what's

this cross for? Well in

there was a Indian drown there it seemed

like there

was a canon load of furs went down the spring. That Indians
name was Auther Nelson his wife had that-he

was the boat

money he was the captian of this boat-or

canon, captian

this canon going down and she was wreck

there and lots of

lives lost. And after wards I remember

seeing the women

in Hazelton,

of

she had the house just up on the hill.

I"M SORRY GO HEAD, YOU WERE GOING TO SAY SOMETHING

MORE

ABOUT THE RIVER.
Anybody hear a steam boat, which sometimes

they wouldn't

hear it they imagin they would all those tows along the
river. And somebody

would haIler STEAMBOAT!!

would all come flawking
any steamboat
this-these

down-and

then there wouldn't

be

at all. Lots of the old timers that knew about

falls alarms.

they wouldn't

And then they

They wouldn't

pay any attention,

be there. But then there was a second or

third call, and then they would be all down there. Every
man in town, even it was just before

time to open the bank

the man would be down there, I don't know maybe he would
lock up and be down there anyway cause there's
going on when the steamboat

nothing

would land, there be lined

up to get the gain plank out as full as a walker
Then the most excitment
people would disperts

would be over. The line of the

and go and eat there brekfast.

as in that case it was in the morning,
time when we landed

ashoe.
Such

just about brekfast

in.

THIS WAS HAZELTON?
This was Hazelton
remember

yes the old town of Hazelton.

the manager

R. Cuningham

of Cuningham

And I

Store in Hazelton.

in son that-a man named of Morison.

And

he came down to the Hudson Bay. Just then he said my bacon
come? No! Well we ordered

some bacon

it was supposed

to be

here on this boat. Well it isn't here Mr. Morrison,
sorry. So he went back he was shaking his head
he had this bacon order and it didn't

come. And of coures,

he didn't know there was all booze on board then he hadn't
got that far. Bet he knew later though. And this Mr. Morrison

Page 5
had a nice family.
somewhere

His wife I think belonged

down there

to that country

and then he had a girl named Victori

Vicky as we called her. She was about 17 or 19 at the time.
She after wards married

a man named of

I belive

moved away from there. And Jonny Morrison,
she was again I remember

and

was younger

him. And he was

Inlander when she was build the new Inlander

than

on the old
rather

the

big boat that was build a year or two after.
GOING UP THE RIVER THIS WAS IN THE FALL OF THE YEAR WASN'T
IT?
Yes in the fall, one of the last trips.
WHAT WERE YOUR IMPRESIONS
UP FROM PORT

OF THE MOUSE OF THE RIVER GOING

, HOW DID IT LOOK TO YOU THE RIVER~COHTNG

UP IN THAT PART?
Well the piolet

stood on the-stood

forward and he had a

pole with these marks

on it different

or white or something

rather on it, pole he put it down

once in awhile.

there be orange

colored

I'm trying to explane that the river was

very shalow when there was only chanels certian chanales
that you could get up. Altough
up any she kept going.

the boat never touch or backed-

Still that piolet was there forward

that was when he got into the shalows.

They pulled up earley

in the morning,

up when they first

pulled out from
was there.

I t was dawn I wasn't
,but

after they got up I noticed

he

I forget his name, but I think it was Gardner

though.
JOE GARDNER?
I think he was captian
THAT WAS JOW GARDNER

after wards wouldn't

he?

FATHER?

Who's this Bill Gardner?
JOE GARDNER
HES

IS HIS SON, HE LIVES DOWN IN MISSHION

KNOW

. HE WAS ON THE YUKON

There was a Bill Gardner
WAS CAPTIAN

here you know I was wondering.

ON THAT BOAT?

No.
OUR WAS THAT CAPTIAN?
No there was another

captian.

the name of this captian
ACCOUNT

I'm not supposed

to tell you

on the account of been brived.

OF WHO? OR I SEE PROBABLY

JOHNSON.

Page 6
Captian

was on the Hazelton

, Joe

later than we did down at-left Rupert
pulled

the same morning

into

and they left

after we did. And

that

we left, and they

caught up to us and passed us once on the river.
DO YOU REMEMBER

THAT HAPPENING?

Yes.
WHAT WAS IT LIKE?
Well he thought

it was exciting

we were loading at the

time, it was no race at all we were loading wood. And
the captian

came out and shock his head and he said-Dame

that Hazelton

boat anyway

it's going to beat us to it I

guess. But they got something

way up to hold on and let

this other boat get in first, that I was on. What's

the

name again? Port Simpson,

some~

that's right. No there's

thing else know if I could just think about it. Oh yes
they had this steam capson. And when we come to very strong
water coming

over a bar there be one part of it course,

it wouldn't

be all the same depts of water maybe be over

to one side. It be a deeper chanale

and sometimes

in the

center. And they have what you call a dead man way up.
It was a piece of log I guess buried.

Broud sided and a

river with a piece of cable sticking

out, to hock on to

what they called
run forward

a dead man. And these deck hands would

and wave way out somewhere

And get the hock of this

be around you know.

or line into this cable or

strape as a logger would call it. And then they get that
old

going around,

right up over that

that steam caps and it just
. And after they get up above

and get that old stiringwheel

going and then they drift

in the shore and they run and pull that line off and
up front and go on again. That was the most interisting
part of it. It did make any difference
part gravel

or not she go through

wheel was getting
putting

in new pieces

at the bottom
before

if it was

and the wheel, the paddle

they were reparing

it every night,

of board in it where she been hiten

on the rocks and breaking.

As I explaned

it was low water one of the last trips.

DO YOU REMEMBER
Yes.

broken,

wether

GOING THROUGH THE CAYON THE

CAYON?

Page 7
WHAT WAS THAT LIKE?
It was in the morning,

a lot of them weren't

yet. And I open the window
and Blackjack

McDonalld

out of bed

the state room and looked out

was right beside me, and he said

my boy went a shore last night and we should corne on we
got to get going here pretty

soon, we got to get in through

before the wind. And she started
he wasn't

dressed

was leaning

up and he stayed there,

yet he just had his pajamas

out and he pointed

on, and he

out the rock where the old

favorite Mount Royal stearn boat had been wreck, he pointed
that out to me. I remember

that. And the piolet you bet

your life he was right out in front there no fooling about
it and he was attending

his business,

awhile he glance back at the captian,
reading that water.
got right through

and every once in
but he spent his time

And he made a good job of it to he

and just block a margine.

There was

nyolin near the top you know.
RAINBOAT

ISLAND?

I guess that's
YOU REMEMBER,
CAYON?

it.
WAS IT QUITE IMPRESSAVE

GOING THROUGH THE

DID IT SEAM VERY STEEP?

Well on each side, you could see to the top before you start
and after you get in a piece you couldn't

see so plan.

But it was rock walls and not so very high. And a lot of
the frate in high water was taken off below the cayon
over by horse and wagons.

And sargent the Hazelton

he had an outfit

there to do his own

DO YOU REMEMBER

THE SCINERY AND THE RIVER HOW DID IT

IMPRESS YOU, KNOW THIS WAS AROUND PORT
PART THERE,

CAUSE IT WAS EARLY MORNING

IN THE BEGING
MAYBE YOU DID SEE

IT. HOW DID IT STRIKE YOU THOSE'S

MOUNTAINS

THERE? HOW ABOUT

THEM.

IF YOU DESCRIBE

DOWN BELOW

Well, there was snow on top or the high mountains,
is over back

in Kittamat

like way over to the east I would

say. And then lower down there wasn't
timber with cotoon wood and sprues,
timber in that Skeena

that

any snow, and the

there wasn't

a fur

that I know of anyway where, never

heard of any. Big timber. And there were a lot of islands
in the mouth.

And that's where the piolet

I guess would

Page 8

come in very useful.
business,

The piolet

he have to know his

I guess he studyed around

They didn't have any motors

those days they have to

around those place or pull around.
studied out before-I

there with a row boat.
He must of had this all

mean when the spring started then

kept right along all summer, and this was the fall and he
knew where he was at all right.
WHAT DID THE ISLANDS LOOK LIKE?
Well, you could see it was built up by

from

the river. And the edges of them toward the river had been
cotton

trees that had fallen

then be swept down paralle

into the river, and

like-the

island or the curent

would carry them so that the tops would be close to the
island. And the rest of them would be standing all natural.
The leafs were falling
yellow,

at that time. The

leaves were all

it was October.

WAS IT A NICE SUNNY DAY?
It was after wards,

yes nice bright

day. It looked nice,

the sincery was fine then.
WAS IT CLOUDY AROUND

THE MOUTH AT ALL?

Yes it was in the morning,
morning I remember,

misty.

Didn't see much in the

but it was nice in the afternoon.

THEN AS YOU WENT UP THE SINERY CHANGED?
Yes gradually,

the trees get smaller,

up-I would say around

Tearrace-where

and when you get
Terrace

is know you

see Jack Pine once in awhile. And the Sprouce trees were
smaller. I didn't

see much different

in the size of the

cotton wood, so. And there was ceader

all the way up you

know.
DID IT SEEM TO CHANGE

ABOVE THE CAYON AT ALL?

Well, it looked like more of a dry bealt yes. You come
into the popular.
how Hazelton

And Hazel bushes,

got it's name. Mr.

there Mrs.

I understand

when he first went up

father he named the town Hazelton

count of the growth

of hazel bushes

that's
on

on the bench lands,

of the river. DID YOU PASS ANY INDIANS GOING DOWN ON
CANOES?
Yes, but not many. There were some.
CAN YOU REMEMBER

THOSE AT ALL?

Page 9
No I can't not on that trip. I have seen the canoes

later

thought.
WHAT ABOUT THEM?
After the steam boat went out of commishion,
between Skeen a Crossing

and Hazelton.

quite layed into Hazelton
was in charge

For the

was

he used canes. For male.

of them apparently

the mail, he handdled

they applied

on account

the mail and pasangers,

of having

and express.

But he didn't go on the river of course he just stayedhe had an Indian-he

knew the Indians

They had big ceader canoes,

I remember

one time she been up visiting.
don't make any difference,

of course really good.
my sister went down

She went down canoes wobbaly

you go and sit down and it was

all right once you get going, nothing

wrong at all.

DO YOU REMEMBER

ANY OTHER STORIES

I can't recall

all the name of the Indian villages

the cayon. But I remember

ABOUT THE SKEENA RIVER?

the

and

and

and then the next was Hazelton.

above Hazelton

Glen Vowell.

been that far, perhapse

above

And then

I think the steam boats has

right to Kispiox.

DID YOU EVER GO TO KITWANCOOL?
Yes I've been to Kitwancool

buying

fur and over the top

and down on the cranberrie

but I never went all the way

down that's a tributary

of the Nass.

WHAT KIND OF RECEPTION

DID YOU GET AT KITWANCOOL?

That was good when I told the Indians who was. If I hadn't
told them that they might of thought was going
prospecting,

or go

maybe put in post in state land, but when

I told them I was a nefue C.B. Smith Hazelton
was all right. Another
I see you in Smiths

well that

felow came out, Oh I know you,

store before

I know Then he fixed it

up with the other felows then it was all right.
Typed By
Jillane

Spence