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ThursCoYJune ;7 1985
Interview

with Bernard Hindle

I'm Bernard Hindle I was born in Vermillion Alberta, April
in Vancouver with my grandmother We c~~e
up here to Hazelton, by ""Jayof Prince
Rupert; we came on this
ship and up by train.
My father came several months before we did,
to get settled here, and we lived in NewHazelton ['or the first
two
months in this area.

1913. After a visit

Q:

What kind of wo rk. did your dad do?

In the spring of 1917, 'lie moved out to whs.t,was known fo r- quite
a few years is the Hindle Ranch just above Four-~tile Bridge.
Q:

Four'-Hf.Le Bridge that' s t~~n·,rards
Kispiox?
And, you moved into town from there?

No, vre rnoved to the ranch f'rom NewHazel~i-~, ~.Ec. ".-& had much
shorter SUi11JIler
seasons then, and when we made 'the move it was inJ,th:uee
feet of snow,
Shortly after we moved down to the ranch the first Four-Nile' Bridge
went out in flood.
Q:

Hhat year was that?
In the spring of 1917.

Q:

Then vras that

replaced

by a bailey

bridge?

No.
During the remainder of the high water that spring
getting into tvron was by canoe.

our only means of

~lhy did you come from Alberta to B.C. to HazeLt.o n?
Well, it was through a real estate deal, my grandfather made they
taken this ranch as part payment for a house in Vancouver and they just
gave it to dad so
Q:

And he gave it

to you?

No, it \18.S sold, that's
where Stevrart Forsythe
on the ranch until I was six years old~
Do you have any brothers

lives

now,

\'/e

stayed

or sisters?

Just one sister.
Is she still

e.l.L ve nO'K?

Yeah, she was here last

summer, she'll

be coming again

this,Sl:ummer.

-2-

vie moved from the ranch temporarily
the hospital,
so I could walk to school,
from out there.
Wasn't there a fei'ry that
to Hazelton?

renting i he smaLLfarm across
it was a little
too K'ar

came across the road from Kitwanga

Yeah, but it couldn't r un in high waters, and at that time it was
only a big canoe. Incidently it was one of the biggest dug-out canoeSJ
ever made on the Skeena River used as a ferry, it would have se~ ral tons
of freights across in one load,
You wouLdn' t have any r-ho to gr-aghs
I forget what they call it
Cedarvale fa r so many years._
imere did you attend

now its

of it?
like

the one they had done at

school?

I started school in fall of 1919, In a one room school at stood
just about wher-e Rose Horrison' s house is now, in fact its part of
her house the lumber was used.
H01-l

hi ',h Here the grac( s?

To grade eight, we "lent from grade one to grade eight a nd in
one room school and the peak and enrolement was 4f3 pupils in one year
vie had one teache r for L,.f3 pupils in eight grades , and that of course we
didn't have a high s c .001 until after the ti ,e I graduated from "That
we used. to callpublic
school, and then we had a room in the' _old
Sargents Store, that had been the post Offic~.
I'm ,P.E UAS T' .n.T AT'?

It stood just about on the back end of the pa.rking lot; the parking lot
of Silva's Store, it used to go right ac ro ss the whole back end of the
lot but before, vJell b~fore Ii!; e came the front half burnt off it just
snubbed it off and tiad the store sitting
way back from the stre~t there7
and in the early days \.'reused to have a separate butcher store,
.here
in HazeLton wh.ich was on what t s t.hename of it, "Oh Clifford
treet."
Just ri.ght near where Mae Simp•••• or not Hae Simpson
Clara Simpson? On that street

wher e Scotty Smith is?

Where HarrJ Simpson used to live,yeah and when they closed that ~wn
Sargent's moved in the older building, f malll bui Ldi.n, whi.ch had housed
the Omeni:caHinor Newspaper.
\'las that

a-ie r pri ve tely owned?

Pardon, yeah they attached that ,the back of the store and t ecame the
butcher store of Hazelton.
Fo! a good mapy years~.and un until that time
most;
of
the
buildings
of
Hazel
-t,zn
¥.e:re s t.LLl, st.andf.ng, along ffie e t ree t
,..
'~

-3From the corner wher-e Alice Haitlcmd's Speciality Shop is right
up to the other end thereis oThh;§rt.wo of the original buildings left on
that street wl]ere Mr-s, Panter lives and the' 'Jld, in what we used to call
the Ne'1ic~ ~~QJ?seis tl1'~~t)2I'd!'€, rouse where the teachena used r -j;loaro __
and, one of the first
bu.ii d.i.ngs to burn -:..y,n ~_~::; tlleLamson and HUbbardStore.
That was the second building in from the corner where .Alice's it it 1'!ould
of stood, pretty much •.[here the what, -1f!l-"-nad' tor a· drug store building
•.ms at the -ime, and when that burned down it was only, it only had a three
foot sidewalk between it and the hotel, and our active bucket brigade saved
the hotel from b-u_rni"ng.
The hotel

1.;a8

beside

the store?

Yeah, the hotel 1" as right on the corner, the: Omenica Hotel, a.td
then there was several other stores there w.as Hill's Shoe Store,
and the
last operating saloon in Hazelton, the McDougall's Saloon.
Incidently,
I was not very old, but I had a drink of gingerale in there beIore they
shut it down•
.nd, I forget there wer-e several other buildings,
there werea couple
of Chinese Hotels, I know one stood where the building they are now
renovating for the band offices,
stood, one by one they burnt d~ln.
What about the Ch.i' ese Oonrnurrl
ty , was there
in Hazelton?

a big Chinese commurri
ty

Not a big cormnunity but like all Pioneer communities there were a few
there l:ecause they provided a rervice that other people just wouLdnt t do.
In those days we didn't have no water systems" end about three or four
old Chinese wer-e the water system, the old cola cans on the stickover
their shoulder, and the let's
see now.
Did the"

have laundry service

too~

There's one house on that lot now theone that's
next to the
Band Council Building, used to beihe Provincial Police Residemse.
Vlhere the Old Laundremat used to be?
Pardon; It,.as moved from just the otherd side of Sargent's store
the upper part of the lot where the Inlander Hotle is now, it •.ras moved
from there an d at a bout the same time the jail was building was
movee and that became the l{arshali Bros. Trucking Headquarters up on the
corner "Therethe present building is, j_t~"as torn oo•.m aftenJares the
present building er-ect.cd, but it WiS moved from there; and th:t used to
stand d-l);:;.n at t eother corner, then going around the block vte» a
buildi _,(1 :".-:,
~·t
i··~--,,: _(l,
:-:e;.ll-~"} G ·"'t~:
..~ ~w2 :iJ)Y" \,,-~"(-~~,~-:: "'_ec be en
in the "very early dayS a private residense but it became the the Forestry
Headouarters here in Hazelton, Forestry :eadqua~ters here in Hazelton,
Forestry Office.
The original Forestry Office was on the 10v-TE,r
end
CoffwhatiShnQWtthe Sun..RisetCafe lots nO"l" Along wi.t.h the rov't agents
~ lce we an !la~ ln rtazeL on ln ~fiose naYS.
r» ••

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rl.

-4- .

Were -they side

In s i.de ?

Yeah, yeah they had about four. buildings
cross \' ays on that
lot.
It was all built
in practically
scni~ll. ~ow, nOH going around the
corner down the other street
or directly
ac ro ss fr-om vhe re the jail
building
stood or just abo ut ",.h
• ere t.he lil1rrary is now was the Cunnig:{13.J.
3'J.~_lc:in'3'3~):' Y'~ ',;" ,~'_:
'll'
ti~ cu.iLo l ngs one a store and two warehouses and
they stood crosswise- on that lot there and the 1936 flood took tahe
two warehouses buildings
out.
Was, there
Well,
-::':Jvi: about

arrrbhe r street

h,Lind

t.ho library

is

now?

those river
lots were full 120 ft. lots and the 19S(~ .:'.'lo,)d
hc.,J.l thE: Lenght, of them off along the r i.ve r bank ,

Hould t.ho t be t.h«
at K1san7

bric.ige V!€Lt o a t the. t wa s devm

s arne ti .ie this

No, and that incidently
wher e vt.he Cunningham \iarehoJse I S W3:r'€:
was the s t eamboa.t. landing,
that is has for up river
t.hs t the steam
boats came. He came just a couple of years too late to see the last
of them come up and p-;oing s.Lonc; this s t.r-ee t t.he.r-e •..
,eS the Ingenica
Hot~
t1vJ.·~':" ".r~J.:;d.~}.)i.l~~ -.t 30 ..-.\.{) ~.:~::'.-.: ~.
:.~-LC1"l ;- :.-:."" ~ :: --:.-i.:.:: 'f}~t;l't€ rf-:~..en
Fngt~ fd>ore is now. and dO"'JDon the corner whe re the Catholic
Chter-ch
used to re,they had a little
Catholic
Chur.d:!.there by Bl8.eitstock's
place,
they had a fairly
.ig harness
repair
shop there
In those days it 1;6,S pretty
all horses sleighs,
buggies and vragons
they had a harness repair
shop there
Across from that was the Livery Office
like B taxi stand today, where you go there to get a ride to the station
or whatever and in where EmmaGreene's
hous e .is :·{&;S t.heo Ld \'lhat lie
used to call theBig Red Barn, that Has the Livery peoplets
h,rn where
they kepttheir
horses and then people coming into t.own wouLd use the
stalls
and put their
hor-se s in for ov<·rnight if they warrred to, a and
then" there wasn" t too much up the end of the street
that time it vias
just along wheze the Police Stbtion
is andthe Hountain View Cafe ~.s
.urs t a.n as so r -tment of bachalor
cab i ns along t},c t street.
!~(_

Do you knov D.n·,'ti1inS abo ut. the
with Indian sc'IDol, the Indi£n

~~,

•

1 ub I i.c school
day scho.l?

~·:hen i~~":uG

,tr"algumctcd

Oh, Polly Sargent was the instegator
of thatif
you get :hat to
her she could tel.l you because she
did all pretty
all the arranging
wi th the gov ' t and to have it don e she vas the one spear-headed, that
Well Tom and Pol:ay, 'Io:n vas achco L Trustee then and PoLl.y vas the
qJne who really
wanted it.
And "that was veLl, in fairl:;T recent times because
you see I'm going back nearly '70 years when L' m. telling
yoou vso.ae
of these stuff,
and then coming up the other street,
where the Indian
Offices
now arein,
just in the corner wher e they left
it clear.
he "IaS
first
and only native business
man in Hazel~on for Quite a few yeans.
After he passed ~ay that became a Livery Taxi Stand,
Livery neadquarters
for quite
few years until
it finally
burnt down So tha.t is a picture
the The Hudson's, Bay Store now I'll
start
up by theAnglican
Charch
which is oneal
the oldest
bUllding in Hazelton,
because they celebrated
there s errt eno abo ut. 5-6 years ilgO, and dow: the street
jus t a little
bit and across from on the riv;erside
weLl, wher-e, :in what they call it
tthhe pa rk nOH you 0 know wher-e the Memorial Hc)Dument that 1<18.::-' vher-e
e Hudson's bay, storo -a~,
W R
't
'
'
1 Has a long,
tYPlcal<t
the time}

a

-5it was a long narrow building,
a counter right down one side and all
the grocery sto~«k was in behind the coir-rt.e r and t.he. outside vias clothing
up along the w,all on the ceiling vras
pots and pans and frying pans ahd
everYthing else and and that I can't rmember the exact date when that
c ..hro,'c.e] OV'3r. You might through the if you see ':Steve Pr-eweda, you
might. ',get him'to •.Trite into the Hudson's Bay they'd have all the records
of the changes archives they have a kind of a company museums deal,
they might be able t.orge t the you know more exact dating on that but
it was, not long before the 1936 flood that the y moved the Hudson's
Bay Store up to the corner "There it is now, that building been demolished
and they afger several years of operar.it;Pg in there, the~ they buil~_
the second store, whirh is n01'11'
the furniture warehouse for the Bay
and they also ,~or qu Lt e c:. f~;1i year-s had A. ltttle
bl1t("'~(':r'
S'l!)~)
:l ~tth(.t.'~
uh, t t.he little
lean-to on the side is and of course they 1:ililt the
present store, the Hudson'S Bay residence :t~; the one wher-e Jeff liilson
lives and that used to be dewn on the river lots but a.fter he faood it
was moved up to l.ts present spot sold to the Sterritt
family, to begin
\lith.
,.

t., -

.,

{ell I don't

Pcr- 011,

" ,"

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co
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0 Ld. -l' t t 0 Je rff:

t;i.1:::~~.~t (~<"_t.I-~

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know Halt~r

it.

in

'i.l8,lt"::r liEd }Jiis

Gerry and when t hey H10V6Ci to down south,
Bu t

'I 8::>n.

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8'1:-:l.' G'F~
.-I.n'Z·,''cca,n

thEYy

" , .1,"1 T,ne
..
"le''- ~P, ",',=1::
~,- 'J(-:·n.~ C:-ll)15.~.!i':.'(" ~:.I ::.:.'

:)·(l~._f"ii\': -':":,iLll

·Io~

;.

lived

church so ld the tMOlots for
lnilr3jr'G t.hs t vas r~fht eCQ1~SS
the Li.ne partly on what t hey sold and par-t.Ly on whfich they still
r-et. -',ne(l C'r;c b'1':" :l,t He s only being us ed as a 1d''1-1 ,)" ~1, '0);, "':]
you :(1)',,, S,):'1c ....f th0 Lcan-Los and a.ttachments had been torn
d.c.'tJ.~ " ,-c jv,:::t t.hc:~" .._:._:..:
_
':.J.l.C~Ul'f.- of tl ( meLn building
and the
IJresf-nt manse Bas builii
oh in the 1920 t s I believe the u'lLo.i.ng

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-6Those

peop Le t.ha i e st i e"' e d c a

were

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Pardon no he recorded
and t.h i.ngs J ike that
a ',inor
.i.r. a~s.)ci~teu
-,rit~l d)
CC l,)2ny ::e ·ras.c

he wasn't
r ea Ll..
..:;ov,~r,; .e-vt o.~fi~_'.al

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Yeah
he wept records
of the c LaLns
and later
that
w~Bn the road to Smither&
clesed
t.he t off ice cic:rwn to.
Can yo~ tell
atout ~~at
Sally
coming to s cho oL L: a c s noe ?

that were staked
got im roved,
they

said

mentioned

71ur

Rbout

Oh yeah we did, we had a couple
of hair
raisin
experiences
one time vve it was agter
t. 1.ey )lu,t the bi-. ferry
in as we
it it was one that
c~rs and teasonable
loaded
trucks
co ":"d cross
on , Gnu it ~'Tas uesiv_.le
1 . ri 11 .LT~TJ, ~il<~2 ~".r.;J 3~:)3"\ ::.,:=;
, lJa'~S -~!it,:- c. :~v:
c era ~ ",,"~ J.}, -: l~ i~ -~:::~o·
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riV0l:' fl>Jas jus·t t? ~1:;:::'·3 ~'" ~ 1 ~h3 c 1 "-~ n t ~nd'-;p
~-J!, ,,,,It
~d '12 C~' .:0 '1J.:; :. J )-~.
:;:; I') 3 ::::;:)'12
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and 0 n e
spring
when they were putting
it back in t he -iater
they used
to have to get out always
in t'''e w'i nt.e r , there
)u~t,~n~ it back
in the wat cr • '<y sis i~p.r an I ::::we re cr-o .s i 1,3; .i.r: t. ~_i'VC~,8 ref J
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called

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ent
home, he fell
in the river
but he hung on to the
arid nanaged to keep his fe t 0'1 S~10Te ju t 8Y)Ol~t:;r' to OQld
u.3 + her-e '};.".,:,,':':}
LJ.:::';..;~ , c c.. 21 c::'i ib in the rowboat
again
But that
canoe was about the old oanoe the big one wac 4C ft.
Lo nr, ar
8 ft. a cr-os s j:JL CE.:- ~. c3t)re ~r2 size of it G~d o " CCJTSe
',s:,': ~U
to
;?-2, P v.rt3y jUEt
in the cur: ent t.l Ej i.s e c t.o t2l1
t.c r s cf tc.. , f €.
;..-;-d
-t.i.f'." ..,-,
-,
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:.s
.,
a really
good road down river,
and pol
camps run iD~ t:en 2n~
t'1 t "eS t'1~ l'ig iU>lEtr~
~'i ~'az8l_-::'on +..21rcru6:1 ~~12 2.;''2 "s +"0 J:
about 1940 or laterwas
the cedar pole industrg
must of been of
10-15 camps you know where they just worked the mills and many of
the coal ca -P operators
\~!Ol 1 d p i Le their
poles
or. t.he river
be n ':
in ~~"8 ·rifJ.ter time and then in the spring
after
high waters
they
drive
them dwwn the Nass Y which is down be Lovr Skeena Crossing
the poles wou l o float
ju-r,'m t .ere in t e r Lve r arid .<-1. "t "-s
,~'....i::.e
a sight
to see that
river
just
half
full
of cedar poles.
J

boat

J~'

,",J~

What did
th

they

do with

the

poles?

Well they were telephones
t ar-d t uey ,,,,ent out of here

poles,
by the

l

hydro poles
thousa nd s ,

thinrs
.,

'')

like

4

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).:.',:~""
and B. C. was t he cedar produ cing pnnv i.nce so
there's B.C. cedar poles right across Canada and in down in the
u. S. Cedar Creek there we~e two ;'Iolpope r-at.o r s u se d to p i Le
their ,)o2.est:lere a~1] t-l..};.'':;
1J)1 1 '
~ U e of )O::".;S
0:1 2: It high
and 150 ft. long there were two piles like th~t and that was a lot
of poles.
Then, they J:iadone place where t.ne,: put t he il1 ju:::;t
d own I'r-o:n
Four=Hi I.e b r i.d.;ea-id t.' ey ',- ,t UJ!C in t.he S',) ,t ii·~ 0 "),.>
.:..' 2~
the poles would vst»: 1 d dive right under the water intothe canyon
and co. e bobbing up half 'lVsyaC!DO~,S and a frierd of .o i.ne Frank
pipe was down t.he re at the bot t.o:n of the s 10 ~t }.epp i ng it c l.ea r
so t,"latthe ,')128 co 'ling dwon 1 ouldn't 'it t he ()'"'8S ~2.re-<d/
ir

t.r...
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v c t e r 3r~

h=

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~--llS:~__\..- t.rei

cru

+,

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t·~clJ.

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and getting them out of the lIfayand he wasn't quite quick enough
one day and he was standing on one and anot.he r po I.e came down and
hit it and he went right up in t.l e air and ri6;--~1",\',0
'18 wa t er ,
TIe ~1' U cl 1 ~l._O
'.1::> :1.-11° 'VO 3 OLc1r :'f:- VE...(i IE...J Fr e:'c~!-\J2nad";"2::'
fc~_l()-~l

le

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~uebfficand he wa s r.or e less Lr: char-ge of the river dr: Lv e he re for
c~ldte 8',J!1 i Le
Also dur";"n3;t~e flood 1936 no I mean it flo ided in 1918
no 191 7 we had a an expert canoeman he was relared to ~ichard
Claremont an uncle or second cousin or something of Richard Claremonts
and he took my dad's farm machinery acr cs the Ii er in t' e Cbno e
durin-; the .,ee k igh TJDter dod::::in:,
dr Lf't.woc d c: d e v. r'it"~_T"';
e L; Eo.
I rarr~ber one night I was down fishing for trout at the
eddy of 4-1'v1ile---'bridge
I saw an empty canoe cowing JO'tJ[l t.he river
Lr-o ken loose f ro.r s-» ..e b o dy 'U.) at Y.:ispio:x:
anJ 0:1 a f'
minutes
later I saw two fellows in a canoe then t hey were com.l ng down
as hard as t.hey COJ. .j ,('0. Mou know sort of high ,,--ter cur r-ent.
ca r r-y Lr g t ...
181n BY)J

:eLlly moving
Hazelton.

t he .. l)a_~_~;_i l~ as

and they caught

harJ

--.:~ C,:l:jj

the canoe before

.:»

v

t

l

~

J:,.r~c;:/

t"~'(~

it eot down near

Q: Do you know who they were?
No, Idon't never did know it was kind o~f picturesque ib qa way
because it was getting quite dark and all I can j~e :'-las
a silohette
going by.
Was that how people

eot from Kispiox

to Ha7elto~?

Oh no, we had a road here then during the time the briJo8
lrvesou+, that "vas ab o.rt the only Hay yOl.~ could set acr-o rs
I r.e Li.ev
OJ__
l":!
of :,'18 -[ "':Y'):'-:' 3ld ~li0'1er J.,I ('1J "':<.':2.
m} L Kisgegax
trail, was someti.'es used by the Kispiox people
they
crossed in their canoes in ~ispiox and they walked in
f'r ori :'ispiox on t',e trail.
In c i dne Ly t ney used ~s c': :,ack C:; _1 their3LJ,,):;'1'
S
un Le r JJ'1'6"
,~~laL of Kispiox of Kisgegas over that trail I don't know why
they didn't u~e ~ack 1-]ors~s~ut they hired )eo~l~ to car.y it ard
I heard tko of the Ol~t";"r
era in ~'Ie 1.C. Cafe one day talking about
their days of packer for Hudson'S Bay, before they would hire them
they had to be able to carrv 2001'os. in there ~lus their own
camo i r.- I"ear.. and t.hev ro
1 i J 1,1 e neY1 t.o T ~~n ---""Ii
+or.
",T'lO
1

e

-8they were Johnny

l

~oore and To my Jack.

They were reminding of those old back ?acking
sat there and listened to it.

Jays ~~d ~

Where wo' Id they pack ~rom?
From Hazelton
Where woule

from the Bay Store here in Hazelton

they take their packs to~?

Kigegas.
Did they have a store at Kiseefas?
No, I don't think they did, they just people who oredered
and the

tI>a~Jl)81"'S

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COlle

in and

o r-de r'e d

t.1ci:-1

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c i.d

Ju; ::.'~:,d"lC ":'0
1: Or) ,::"d .J(- .::~.
OJ:' ,':'r t~12.J.
I should tell you a little about the hospital i guess
J..twas established in the around 18:0 I'm n::>tsure of the date
but ,13.V~ev o J can check 'J. at the '1..JST)it.dl. 3nJ ~::;+, ':"12 r-ecor d
f'1
~-~
;:'n,;; '.ct.:::
J:.~. =.c , TT"i.n:ch
and a Dr. Austerhout came out
here in the early days as missimnaries.
'>

J

So they wer-e n 't Dr. I s originally?
They didn't co~e out ~ere as Jr.'s
No, but Br. Austerhout was a Dr. of divinity he wasn't a
medical doctor he earned a doctor later as a .n.i.n i s t.er J'lt.ur.
T?:.rinc~
d8ciue t' ,.,~> it wasn't mush use trying tos3ve
t he sO'1l8
of sick )3ili Ie rho were going to die a year or two lclt.er,so he
we-rt back '3~J =o t :lL:3 LJical J2--:::"':;2 t.o trJ 3.. I ~>~ ,J L I~ o 1i',!
.;.
:'1d':;
,r')-c
i1
":~"':'1"'J""',;
~"2'-,)~.
Today now general
practioner will not do surgery or anything like that well Dr.
Wrinch had to do the whole thing or never got done and Hazelton
was a medical centre for the Northwest B.C.
in those times
People came from Prince Rupert and faraway as Prince George to
come to the Hazelton hospital it was actually the first hospital
centre in Northern J.c.
1~~T'3

:;

How did they decide

>'.~

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Faze t on "m ','

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IT Decided 'oj t'le Hud so» 'SlAY'
ompany on the account
of the fur trade here it was a terrific p~ace for fur trade
and that was where they settled in all like here, Fort St. James
and so on just to stagger their have their establish them so
it1s not to far apart so for the trapper's
to get to.
Anot~er thing that was inter~sting here in the early days
they didn't . se money they llsed to}en~ , they were made out of
aluminum; in different va lues, and it a s a 1fTay of k e ,)in]:t "ie ir
money because trapper's coming in and selling his furs and he'd
be paid in tokens which were only good at the st6re that he sola
the fur to. It had another very good aspect th0ugh it virtually
uae Le ss in tryL'l."t.o steal then fro '1 anybody because the s::,orekeeper
knew who t~ey paid them out to and if anyone wondered in with any
more t.han: one or two of them to buy something, well they T'lere
immediately sus~ect.
So that it was a lot safer than trying
to keep loney when we had no bank or any secure ?l~ce to ~ee:
T

-9it. 'i{henthe one of previous
high school buildings bur-nt.do vn
which had been the old C.B. Smith Store.
There were two or
three burlap bags full of those tokens go burnt up i~ it.
The a Lu-ii.num thin wa fers of a.Iun.i ncm -,r81:l1J it take the intense
heat of the fire.
I have one of t.r ern incident:.ly. I'll show it
to you after we get through talking.
It, there were a few
of them scattered around here when they tore down old buildings
and I hanpenedito fet a ho'd of one. A five do~lar token.
They had d i.f'f'e r-et t 'TAl .f ,) for

1?

v'" (;

Yeah, they had them up to about ~50.00 and I ~ust (ot a
hold of a five dollar one.
I never knew about it at all ti:l
a :"':,P1 'he fin', 'r' e n SOTl"JeOne
'Via
s bemoan j.nr:the f 2- ct the-t. t'ier
:3~1 got burned up .
I could qu i t e ready
ave' ar] a Set
.. t hem
in the attic of the what had b--e n t he C.3· )l1it'-l
-t.or e . \We
used that for a L i.gh school for a couple of years.
We were fortunate here in Hazelton for all of nrettin' near
al-:"'ofthe origi')bl +'o'·rr, ev-int.ua I y r ur-nt.'~l.
7~ 8,
1reY'E::;
TLY.
lit t Le loss of life in t.he fires.
J1; st the one C Ln=se
hO\l.l,
t he r-e lT~?"
)'t'll
1;,T.) ~I o:?
r_ ~ i~ J..l.v.L.
That old fire bell, you could hear that for about five
~iles at least.
I don't think there's anything in the world that
could (ake the shivers run up and down your spine like that could
do. Cause in those days, we all reaJized t~e dangpr of 0ire.
Everybody possible pitched in to, you VI'O\i to 'he1p safe t.l.e
ou.i~.~in3if t.ne - c ou L; = nd ."st
e ~i 1e -i;:,'1C:>j ~o 'J::" '",

e

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But they would safe the buildings next door. When the Omenica
hotel burnt down, there was a Sargent's had a big warehouse
because they handled a lot of feed and grain for the fa4,.-ing
people here, flour
an~ all the rest of it. and that stood jgst
at 01 t where Be ert.e:a's s t.or-e is nO"J. rot '1'l ite ".he ' .."a:,
c1 a:'.
~~en the Omenica hotel burnt down over on the opposite side
of the street, quite a way", away , they had to ~" t 'rE t ' :~nks a Ll
over t.ha t store to keep t'-e roof f+om CdtC'.;::~1i
0:1 f Lre .
'::'1e
11dre'
:- )'n8

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:12::/ S "./ ' "~.n S""'r\~~: ",'s
o ....
'.L"i
n;,./ below zero or colder.
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One of the fire

fighters burnt one hand and froze the other.
But 'r.Je '15"'::l to ~eL, , the coldest I could recall is 55 degrees
below zero. And Lt.wa s MOSt unusual to have a '(linterw i t.hout.
that kind of 'Ire2ther, at Les s' '-10 - ~0. ls a it.
I o-r Lf 'rp c..:~t
30 below for one night we've had a cold winter.
Spring break
up didn't come till well into April.
Now people are ~lantin~
eardens in April.
You can see the difference clima~ice situation.
The first year we mo ed on to the what18s known as the
Lar-kwo r t hy place, that's the little far. across f'r om the ho s j i.t a L
The market for vegetable was extremely ~ood.
Dad ~lanted a lot
of :-,otatoesan . h.. we ''lentto "'eu 0:1 the last day of September
it was just pouring rain, just a torFent it was coming down.
We woke up in the morning 20 below zero. That was that, the
potatoes stayed in the ground.
Me used to get a More decisive
change from one seaS0n to another, similar to t-:c:t. vall.JeO'1ce
t he +'i~'
5":, ca. ~, T~'lC "-1 Y t DA first cf Oc" 0 ',.,er,':' )'",.~ '~ ··/t"U
LI")~"
c.
~n
or"'3::
~ ': P
C 'r,
15 of October which we don't anymore. Sometimes we even wonder
if we're even gomna he ve
snow for Christmas.
There \if s '-j ui t '
a depth of it in those days too. Very sure on the flat about three
feet.
'

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Cl

-10I was on a winter ice fishing trip up the va~ley we we're
on about seven or eight feet of snow. Made our camp, sighted
a big hump in the snow so we leveled it off, found it was pretty
solid unde r-nea t h that 'r,ras
wher-e we had our campfire.
Then we
put a big mat of spruce bows tren we put the tent right on
top of that we didn't try to get down to the ground.
We had the ••• it wasn't really a fl60d that took out the
first four mile bridge.
It wa s just a creek thing •. a big
cotton weed log, sort of s er.ri 1.11) 8n, eol hen r-ammed in be t.vze.:n
the pylongs the supnort of tre bridge and twisted them out. The
bridge just fell down.
And the old bridGe they hod to shole that
uP, the one )rior to the ~re8eht one. ~e went I worked for
t.he vpr b Li c wo rk. fat' '"VIl i1 el.,~1e'~, ·re ,~[3"::' Ll.,ri
("0
18 bo~ to n
part of the post in concrete so they couldn't crack up.
The only time I ever saw Scottie Smith scared was coming
across we were haulinr Jumber and the bridge it had a bad
restriction on it actually.
nomehow or bther we put about
two tear too much ClTI t.he Lo ad of Lun.u- r- arid that was a lot of
weipht.
Gr8en spr-ue= Lumbe r , ";e (,ot Jown to t he '"':::'iJge,
s t.oppe J
~''l2 ' : i:t~,
~~)
1 "'J.8 sJl:r
e~""'I l) '-'.'
~ :iY'l
every
onee in awhile.
Scottie com t ed ~ h= r-ows of :::.:'11;)-"1" "we got too
much of a load on here"
he said, And "oh" he said "we'll try
anyway."
80 we tightened up the chains and he told ne +o go
a cross the river first he sa id -re go t hr-ough t 1-.p re .s 110 uoe l.ot.h
01" '7.S Eoing."
So lie •• :L '·..re2J-eu
e cro s s LJ.3 ~:"~l~C:;b. [,'lJ
I saw
Scottie co- ing he had a hold of 'le 1r '-t881a SC8r8ct
ook O'~ his :f:;ce
cJ""dhe '1d 1 it :l)Jr'
.-,!'"ed.
The old'..ridge just going like that
But it held surprising because tLe beams of that bridge were so
rotten you could pick them out by the hand full. But'they did
have what they call, we LL there were re-enforced vri t h he avyv
planks on each side of them, bolted through.
But it w~s SJre
J'

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'" ~)a ~.,c hwo r k ,~ob •

Why did they call it 4-:;,ile?
:itwas approximately four miles from t own , The way the
old rood wandered around , it t.ook f .ur ' .I Le s to ge t here, LOl'[
i~s Dot ~uite that far, a~out tj~~: a~J half or somethine like
that.
In those days it was four and ahalf.
Tpis bridfe went out in 19 ••• 41,42.
'Ihe bridge across to
South haeelton.
T,Thenwe first cane here, "'e e i.t.he
r r.a J to go
o:"OU:1G by Sout
Haz eLt.on iJ'1.u c oi e c.:'co -::: t'l"'T, 'J::."ii--':2, o r b- 0""::"
i ,':'0
/)Y1
- ":, Two-~·1ilewere
the 2-])hle Creek goes down over
there and cross the bridge t~2re.
The Hagwll"et ~riJ~e
~~s
, -lil~ but t'lere
1Ij~=jS no
~Odl'
...
'-J~':~~
3~je·-;o:-'~.;.
T'!~en
we first
carne here.
That was a t.cugh hau l. down throw)
t'-lat 'anyon.
You lotta fO Jo",'10,'1(:;
~,i.8 and up it.be other.
Jhen they had the 1936 flood, I was standin~ on the four
i"e ~lri,'::~\~
0'1.t-' d""~T;
it \'13S 'J~ e o Ld 'ri.de'r t'e
~o.r -~:i~e '~Y' l~e
".Te:3
~? :0"',. ',J',": "] ,~,' 8 , ,'f- j 11t one.
One of the houses from
Kispiox Village went under it and knocked a tin chimney on the
bridge.
I was busy trying to get off the bridge.
I thought
the roof "TelS goi.ng to hit it. lobbing up 3D J JOFll di J f a ct.ua L'ly
sav b cot 0 n ,. 0 1 ".r G) a '- °' < t a ,.,0 f 0 0 'C 1. 0 .:; I 2:1. '3::-, in the
canyon there and the branches had been _ro~en off, but the
who I.e log
0 there
, and that just went underneath the bridge,
just barely cleared t~e bridge and it stood right up one end,
one of the wh i r L pools pu lLe d the one end down . It stood right
JV~'-

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-11-

up,just like it was g::v'owingthere. If so:nethin~ '_ike .,f-jhit
t~e 'J:;id_~t',
-r-,? T'J __ J '&,-e
'lId a (I;'
Yle 0 l)"c, 3))Yl:::'.
Yeah, I could remember the in the d=y s whe n they made t ha,
dug out canoes.
The last one I saw ade was 1 n at ••. oh 1,[hat
do t"ef ca~ ~ '-"~ cad nere, f)':' 1 ,)1 t t o :cis~';0/ '": It used to
be a nasty crooked little hill, where they had several accidentll>
8 miles from town. Well anyway, an old fella was down in there
making a canow, I guess it was one of the last d¥g out canoes lllade
right out in the bush where the tree-fell.
That s one thing
th:t a~azed most of the white peoJle was the perfection of ~hich
those canoe s re re )'loJe. Pe-v-off;
ct 1y at.r a ight and perfe ctly shaped
and everythin~ without any instrrents or measurements not even
a tape measurer to reasure anythin~ with.
It was fantastic the
way they useJ to do it.
y

1

Do you know who made t.h«
t:- .2
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"eah.
No , I don "t I was so o Ld , :.y sister used t.o have to ,ross
:":-1 i~ ~-::,
~ ': 10-. 1::'Lt-'"""' f--~__ i~~ '~b"_k
'_:
-',s~'
:jJ'
J ::,':'J_ .;. .• ,
O~
.'~r~ __2
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f
had big sheets bovn ce into it, it
"y'

W.

TT

just bend t.he ,side ric;11tin. It wa s so old and rotten, it vra s
just spongy.
lhe only thing thRt held it was two or three layers
of tin nailed on t he outside of it. I~ "'!J8S CJ')Ou~i;';-3 ',it: 82 s o .e
these coast war canoes were in the early days.
I donTt know
where they got sucr a big cotton wood from.
It wasnTt a cedar.
Had it been a cedar, Vie thought may be it '[as lJIO';g[-lt
l £)
r i ve r ,
Lut it v·To =n ! t .i.t Tfa? c; cot ton ')oJ.
Whatever

happened

to it after

it was re~]aced?

Oh I donTt know.
I think they just let it 00 down tn O~8
of the floods.
It I s so 'let
h i.n.: ".'''atshci.Ld . D\,t; 'J - t; ~, partically
restored at least.
Put under a roof and dept as lon~ as it would
keep.
People here are ar.f'u.I
t.het -.,;ay,
there \.eJ'C::
u lU-':"J 0: olJ "(':1j_l":~;.~
we could have had a fantastic muse ',"'1 ber-e, you knov , if' it
hadn 't ~ en for t"at.
~,nd ano t.her "J::':' <:: t'. "v ~ coo ~ Ly - : 'J~,\:t; t.he
1 eo:"-,)
0"
22.0';:' c:: - ..:), ~'j8
ILO:Lc.nartifacts t.l.at, wer.t. Cut o i l.ere ,
They were virtually stolen.
Some of them were a lot of them were
like when, Old Kaldo, when people moved frOM there.
They left
a lot of t~ere artif6c~s t~ere;blanks,
carved things, an stuff
you know
They say there's hundred of el'1pieces of t.l.a t stuff
dovn .i n T'·_lse·~r
s in t:f- Ur::::'tec.:
3-'---3-'
s , But they do have a law
that people can properly indentify th;-Itst,'lffand c La i.m as
be Long i.nz to t.her-e fa-lily they can get it ba ck ag in. The t.ouri st.s
uael., to come out of here with all k i n.ls of t.hi nga , ~'hen I
wo~ked in the ~ost office t'ere.
I qot a fl'ny
loo~l~C 0a~cel
i'1 ~' 2
1.3il, 3d J"Y' .:; ,-'J ~;) t',e post ~1aster of hazelton. -'sO I opened
it here it was t~e beak off of one of those totem poles at Kispioxo
and it •• o 3 note in there saying they took it ~~ a prank.
You
know and they got a O'uilty cons c Le- ce so tYJe2'sent it 'J':: cl:a ud
CJsl'~ed
if I 'r)'lld qc.,,,? 0::;0 e boJy +.o hsve it, put ')-c' •

-12t' er

.,

T'l''12 t?
enterta inn ent, oh, loca 1 concer t s arid (1' Lt e a few
more dances tl an we ~ave know a days, Especially when they pot
a few peoule around here that can play instru~ents.
Actually
we owe a tremendous debt of eratituJp to I~ses ~Orr:SOL.
3eCOkS~
he went out as quite a young ran and s t i.c i eJ ll',;;ic
and! e CE!'TIe
ba ck and startt'G 1,' at 'A'23 l~"o''138 '-',e'Ji~cr00Ll G: c..r s ": c- Lr;
Yis~ ~ 01.
rn, E-':- ("1 E r+t cd as one of the best
dance orchestra in
Northern B.C.
It wa s through his initiative his tedchLIE;
thDt ),,'Ley
got started and slos the Brass B8nds vre had SO[:lEterrific
Brass Ban~s here.
But I, one of the few, in fact one of the two
I believe; the only white people -"0 ever attend an authentic
Inriian show or concprt or Hltatever you call it. That was up
in the old Gi t annaax Hall.
t~ot the one that 1Yl'~'nt
Jo",TY1,
'1),
a
still older one.
And it was built like an area.
The seats were
down on '-Ot~1si ie , it -Ias q .Lte olon:: ' u i. l 1-L'l , ') "3tS on both
sides, and act was put on right in the middle.
A little bit
fenced off one end kind of a change room, dressing l'oom. An'
they'd all come running out and rut there act on. It was very
interesting.
And I saw the last o~en air da~ce.
You know,
the
o (.:;m air cere: .on Ls L 12-1c2 -"Tc,~_l
I SCr.[ t: 2 :'J0t o-re
L
••czelJ;:.or
~~"~
-?~
~~l- on that little short street there on the other side
of t.he Hudson's Bay. That ''12Sf'an t.as t Lc , t.ns t "r:s -ri.en
.['2",,:1;
had the regalea.
head dresses vrLt.h the goose down in and all he
rest of it,) /OU. '<n
It ',"3.S
,1fT,:" .:. l)'J'eE'si
/8.
Hazelton too was a jumping off point for pack 'trains.
I don't know who all, t.he rwwas several people owne d pack train
here at that time.
And I can recall one time they ,'rereloading
a bun ch of r i ch ')itches, or "T1 a''::'e7-:'r
or '.r'la~:,
.v=r ~n, ,,,,2.1'e.i1
To go out on a holiday trip up north.
They had this one horse
packed dO-rfD '0 the old Hudson :'a1 Sto'Ae. It started tried to
buck the pack off.
It bucked so hard it did a half somer sault
and it landed right on the pack and a boy about my age, I was
only about
8 or 9 then saiJ Oh the Victrolla,
her(3 they -,Iere
packing a great big gramaphone way up into the bushes I thought
that was rid1ilculous. Some of t ' e,n people didn't ha s i t.et e
to spend their money_
'TC;

-,T

Did you know Cataline?
I've seen him, just once where the Kispiox turn off
takes off.
Standing there with his trop
coar on, big broad
ri .me d hat on and that was only time.
I did meet a ;;12.n ""1-0had
been h.is pa rt.r-e
r ' efore he c ame up in ~uesnel one ti.le. And
--le sat"
~hc; ole :1"1_=--0" -7, S,
i.. to. ':'1 ': c -'83" :'
" '..,~- - ':L' J ""
:
Cataline you know after they had been partners for yeors, packing
into t he Barkerville go Ld fields anJ so t 13"v -.IdS qri.t.e~~lt'-"I'8Sti'F
Another interesting person I met, and I certainly regret
not having a tape recorder in those days.
He was recorded to being
108 ! ears old, when I met h i.m and he lived to J 14.
The oLd
fel,low lived in Kispiox, he had a house right across from Elsie
I'orrison lives.
Right in close to wher-e fish ha t che r-y t s . "ell
I roJe out, ith him from town one da and he harne3:-,eo his
own horse at the age of 108.. and go out cut his own woo; and
everything else.
Do you know his name?

-13~
No, I didn't
ask his name -ind I sure regret
t ha t t'.3re
',rere
,"'--'
TJ
.01'
SUC,lL.!l~':1gS
a s t .:1:;>erecor 1e r s ,
J,e s.a i,'-o 1e -,rD. a )0:' O~
.J..;O)
when the very first
white man cane to Hazelton.
They were scouts
from Hudson's
Bay Co. picking
out p La ces where t hey would establish
their
fur trading
post Hazelton
is one of oldest
~ay headquarters
in the r.o r-t.l: uf
c:. It was quite a set up the,' had t 'c:,ere) t he
old stone,
it had ')uilt
as a block or 'ol.o c" '·.n' .. , e -\T~er8 they
Et Jr'" J -'h'32"8 :: L .1i"Jion D
and in the summer it made and ideal
cooler
before
ve ~lC1,l electricity
J1'1.d re.frii3e~oti
.n , 'J::;C--,8-:; Jv'le
walls were 3 ft.
thick
of cement and rock th~ heat
couldn't
penetrate
and do' bled up the roof.
It was f'ant.as t ',C cr ew (that
')lll'
.1< 'i t: )
Off and on we've had industries
here, (Bdar pole was one of
longest
term enterprise,
then we had mining,
Silver
standard
Mi.ne was o per-a t i.ng whe a Ne first
came .., They used to ship high
grade ore, not t he ccncent.r at.e the pay the}f do now . They crusheal3
tf;re are> down and did whaf t.he y ca l Led Hater s ipe r at Lon , like told
in 0 sleuth
box, t'1EJt \·-3S. L,~ -rT._xJ,fu}·UslJ
to se):
-'-:.ec:i1
trhe are in those
days.
Then they put it into bags t oae days,
1.00 lb. bags,
and Ll1r't w·'::lst-' ~ l:::-y < h.t-.- sn.::.), 8-1 it out •. And tr.a't.
was running
ctt fl]1 blast~
wfuen we first
got here~ My parents
were ~ry
friendl~w1tth
the mamager anu his wife,
andi we
used to visit
them quite
of terr. Then that
closed
down" the
r-one t.e rv UDS arrd dovm s governed
thE:: ~.ifesJL.'Tl_ '3 30:1(:.. tii H;3
t' , II '.·e"
:C,-:o'Ci'
c'"s'· v JITTY'
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r- Y1 ~ "~"-r
or'
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.;.~
'.t. '-, _. 'T •• Arr:d; of <rOurse \ve had
Silver
cup mine
\'~lic'. '.·~S ~~'ft~,·. ~rol',,:ct.i'·e.
It ',Tas Oil tthe nor-t.hi errd of 9 mile
mo~ntdin.
And 3-4 miles east was Sunrise
mine , it neVer pro due d
it \'J;~S a I:v- ys 0 Jev,lo;).ilent
situatioll
•. They c~ 1':"P
·':w,~ =s,
\ r J:1 .~~ " but it was a costly
business
to put a rOE d througfu
the mountain,
1st a t.r-a i Lhad to be built
aOO traetQl1wou1.ct·,go
•.:,h:i' )"J.6' lpt,. r..
The Mohawk we s a good little
mirre, but when
IT's vein wcn t 1 :ight J_L:ro(.~:'
.10 l~ >:='.' 2n 1 .~~.'
'iV, ,> f:' 1:' 3'h.'l1
It was very good ore ,I went and checked it out.
Big chunks of
o~e 1/2 lead and 1/2 silver.
Good high grade are,
but tLen
fgain
they had to ship it out they didn't
have llills
in t ose
d~ys like Silver
Standa:rd
, did later.
I wor'·eJ at t~e Siller
Stan(.c>:'.l :;:'or ( ~p-:-::.s as a n':"::"l o pe r-at o r , T,re 'l&d ;=;01',8 _:::'t',J.":,~
";O)J 0.'
',~lC-"l.
"'--:'3
..:l"l':'r ','
,1
.. f
)-',;.
n'J')
prospectors
staked
it and it was in part of Silver
Standard
Hi::"l
And later
Sil~er
Standard
to~k over after
the~o
old fellows
had died r nd t.ha t turned
ant to be the r-Lcl.e s t vein
t.he Silve:St.ande r'd ever t-.r:1"J out.
It was known a~.3the Black Princs
claim.
They were offered
$40 000 and ¢20 000 was a fortune
in those d3Js.
One old fellow
took off inot the 1,11Sh and the
other
suy coul~n't
sell
his }e~Be~tage.
80 '~8y Ji~J .ov~r~~
s t r i ct.ed , T3.'
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STORY

= remember another funny incident about an elderly Indian
fellow who went to the store a little too-late.
He saw the
store light on and went to the window.
he heard an argument
in Gitskan, but there was no ~lse in the store to argue with,
!tT!Tl1b'lare
you arguing with?"
H~'said "No one, I got ito learn
to be mad too.
I've ',een ar-ounu he re since 190(' and I got to
learn how to argue with an Indian in the Gitskan language.
In those days many native people c01JJdn't speak English.

STORY
:;::
wa s on a ,trip to Bab i.ne L8'-e JL8 tiLe' 0 re 10ce, 'ise':lsld
appenix there was no nurse, so he t.ook a young f'e Ll.o: from t+re
vi:10ge, to he~p ~erform ~he o,eration.
)8V~:::'dl
-rU'1t'jS
:'ater,;'18 :'~f~-';:;'-~'18j
J::,::> S-j~ ',) [ • 1 )1' 'icJ.l
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asked the old man
died? the one I operated on?" "Oh no, the braVe (nurse) dieds"
Dr, Wrinch got a kick. out of the incident.
')~JJ:::',"

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~'-12

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-152nd tape
You asked Qbout t~e depres3ion and it :idn't urt ~eJple
31'82
,lite r::;.
~_j
as it did in some, because most
pea; Le owne d )roperty at T,:1e t Lne d'1C there 'rere a lot .aor'e
\...
'..c:,r3.:~us
..;arc.:e.:l.s
t;18n t"lSle are today some of the people just
squatted
on government land and built themselves a little
house
and cleared up a land a little garden
plus we had
pen and chickens just to sup~lement the relief money.
The money
allowed for peo)le
to live on is $9000 for the head of the
houselhold, $6.00 for the wif& , and $3.00 for each child per
month and you l~ve for quite fruit'y an
p'cinly b~t you didn't
s-t:.
I've,
C 11 1 ~!'o~L;ler
T·'l ;_:l~ tothe
Game Department in Fisheries
relaxed their
regulatibns considerably so you can go out
and catch yourself a fish or buy one and it wasn't all that
difficult, and s Lso t ne r unt.Lng wasl't:,o ~i.re:'L=-7'ct, ...
:ed
and a lot of people with a bit of ini tiati ve co ~ J get lJ~- c,.ui
te
co:nfortab18.
I know one c0uple who buiJt a little house by going around
the deserted mining camp and so on and rustling little lumber
and so on they built a two room house for 40.00. It was quite
comfortable to Itd been in it quite a few times.
But duripg the depression we just worked in 1ha)ever we
cou:::"J
get a fevo[ 12 J.e:, here a "e:« d8:'s there 2 '1'~ o " C )i"r,t' =
ir

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We were living on that most of the time on that little farm
a cross f'r-om the hospi ta 1, and I did market gardening for 2-3
ye~rs.
I did rat~er wRll at that because people did a lot of
home car.n i.ng . 'Jr had t.: -0 c;ood sized bE: rry :,)(:11- J1<'.;.,3.
'e s pe cle "Lzed
in vegetables, specially for pickling, a lot of people made
a lot of their own pickles.
So we did rather well.in fact we got
our first Model(A) Morgan in one year.
Dad's salary '\tras
$105
a month, for looking after the hospital and farm.
"aLf a dozen
cows a nd so on. I got t he odd ~ ,h ')8 cause it ',rasa )&yin.; sea son
2nC '~ e3ch got a head of the field crops.
I'd work a few days,
hoeing turnip patch or something like th"t I'd we .nanage d c.uite
corrf'or-t.ab ly actua'::"y, SO[,18 of ,rJ,3 o t l.e r ~)e(~')le ;:-l"::L1Tt '8 '.re},=G
"':.:::!
jc, ):"'e' t: ~0::1 ~~i :.'t make all that much of a difference
because times have never being that good around here. That was one
of the tough periods for every:me because it lasted so long.
=t
-, sn t t jiJ.~t·O\:..Lb l'-'iL.
of: :('>01' ' i .ort.l e , :;:"c, Id~cc-,
for 10 years
That was a long time for short rations.
The one thine t. e 'ig~~!s
je)ertr;9"1~ ~iu try .Io -'8S J'~tio'1
)--.~ 'Torkft~lc ','rol'~ 'T2",':
",' O-,_~
3-' ',..~
9 ~r::--C ., J:"./:; 1 for t he highways
department, t ' en sor.ecne
eLse "'0 Ld T'8?K TH=ir we ek ,to get CJ little extra .norie.; :'01' cLo t 'lin~
~iL:~ =- S?y )co·)'.:>
J:~o',md'l2~'
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had to pay rent.
So it didntt make a difference, I know _~~
of us envied the native people because trapping wa s in it T S hey day
you might say almost then.
the prices were coming up and there
were lots of furs.
Some of the native people were coming in
with several thousands of dollars worth of furs was like being
a million;-lire to some of us. In t ose days t.he ; used to 2;0
to California for t~eir holidays.

-16---

Mission Point is just across from town or K'san that was
after the 1st plane landed here. That was a platoon equipped
plane and it landed on theriver. But they discovered the field
was large enough for smaller planes to land on. For qwhile
we had quite a few land here and a fellow came through when he
was on a trip to Alaska t- 'tailor craft one of those smaller
planes on ma1.1 carrying contract. He took off from the
field onetday, he was just about over-the China Grade Hill and
the motor konked out on him, he just glided back and theonly
trouble was> that he i.handed on the roof of a big barn over there
he spilled off and broke a wing. Fortunately we had a fellow
working down at theHudsDn Bay and he had been a aircraft
mechanic andhe and the airpla~e pilot helped repair that wing
The,y had to fl~ down to the states, Seattle to have
the plane testted government tested and it passed t.het es t and
the fellow had rlew off.
Well I don't know why they chose Mission Point, maybe
that was intended to be the hospital grounds. The Hazelt~
hospital, than tftey gathered some land where the ~ospital
is right now which was donated to them by a early picker,
named Mr. Charleston.
That is why the Mickelow place is cut
off and small and the other setJ.ionis large and that area
was picked because it was rn,Jrecentral. You see Doctor
Wrinch had a lot ofivisits to the surrrounding villages,
Glenvowell and Kispiox, and the chosen site is more convenient.
Glenvowell had started as a break off from Kispiox, they
were orginally one people village. Thenative people took their
religious differences so severely, to keep peaee they divided
into two villages ~alvation Army People went w Glenvowell
and United and Methodist of people stayed in Kispiox. And
the official survey of Gl.envoweLlvwas done. by Mr. Glenvowell.
They named it after him in 1914, I talked to one of the
oldtimers who had assisted.
When we came here and moved to the ranch in 1917., we used
to go down to G~envowell and meet the uommander Officers,
who Capt. Jackson and his wife. Thatvas a Quite a while
S81v~tion Army was here quite a while, I don't know how they
got away with two different church groups. At thattime
there was only the Anglican Church that the Gitksen people
went to andit was of the reserve Ittwas pretty much theplace
it is now, but the original was across the street. And through
out the feeling of displeasure ofamount of discrimination
created a the natives of the Anglican church performed their
own church service, that was on the hill, Jeff Wilson Etepfather was the minister, he' wasn't ordained but he held services
So he was the first and only church army and I don't know, but
just after I think the ::;)alvation
Army came around. One of the
early officers, Capt. Halvorson the officers never stayed to long
for some reason.

-17-

WHAT TIME DID HAZELTON START IT'S'"GROWTH
Well that happened to long ago, but in recent times it was
the big sawmill in ~outh Hazelton. It would grow and shrink
and grow and shrink as time went by. It would gain promise
and close down. It was just inthe last few years that became
a nice sized community.
That was the tming about all the Hazeltons ween we first
moved to New Hazelton, they had just about every facility
you could ask for cafes~ hotel, telegraph office, tailor shop
and that just about died. 'I'h ey got down to jest 1 ho t aL and
dining room. Then again there growth temporary declines were
a result of mining. Silver ~tandard closed in 1919, the old
Hot~l wasn't used anymcrre it was too large to be used and was
eventually sold to the~il¥er Cup mine. They did have camps
about a mile down themountain (from mine). The mine was at
timberline. It was cold and snowy up there and difficult to
get water, so they built it down themountain. I've been up
there and they used to have a tram line that sOme of the men
used to ride up in buckets, that's how they used to ~t the
ore down.
GAN YOU TELL ME ABOUT TELEGRAPH LINE

I don't know when it started but it ran right up to Telegraph Creek andpassed to Alaska. uonmuni.cat i.onwas t.hecpur-poae
of the line before radio. In fact radio closed it down. When
they got radio it was obselete, they had cabins atout 30 miles
apart 2 men stationed at each cabin one cabin each so they
wouldn't get what is called t.;abin
Fever. ~abin Fever is when
you live together to long in a cooped up place. And the cabins
were within calling distance, it worked out quite well. These
halfway cabins iftheline broke they would have a cabin every
30 miles to stop when they wer-e lCHDking for damage. The
weather was too severe that they had to have stoppages. They
had blankets like you wouldn't believe so wouldn't have to
carry them and when t he line dosed people just grabbed what they
needed. These were big blanke~s, the other was an elderly
couple and they ve r-ethere for years end years, I went to school
same time aE~one of their daughters came into to town to
get her 7 and 8 because her mother didn't think she could aeep
her up to date!

-18They moved
away a long t i.ne ago and I got letter
addressed to them, they must have been dead for 30 years.
The letter had been written in ~IG shakey lettering as if
someold person wrote it. ~o I just enclosed a letter saying
they had Bruse Robinson's children are great great grand
chil,ren the iWO older ones.
HOW WERE SUPPLIES

KEPT STOCKED?

They were packed in by the local packers. They contracted
so many for the amount of cabins. They were only taken in
once a year so they had to shop carefully but a~ter a courle
years, they had a standard list to go by and would just add
a few things-whatever.
An oldtimer named George Biernes hewas oneof the contractors and Phillip Wilson had a cnntract for a few cabins and
Dave Wiggins the ole black fellow George's rigfuhhand man
Roy Wilson et.e
pf'a tbsr-Phillip an.lMr. Wilson up here were very
big man., quite a bit,a~ike. The Wilson's out Kispiox were
more cannery people they, oy's stepfather was sor-t of a
contractor, they would ask so many people for so many blocks.
HOW DI D THEY GET DOWNTO TK'

CAhNERY?

By train, eventuall:y I don't know how they did before the
train in 1914. I never d i d ask them, but I dO!lt'tthink there
was much of a fishing industry They really had a tent l~wn in
South Haze1ton when i twas ttirne to go down because they run
a special t rain to take them down.. All th:.irhouse 'noldbelongings
went down with them in those days. It was extrememly tough on
the Kispiox men because they would bring all their family to
South Hazt\ton on horse and wagon, them bring theirhorse and
wagon home, thenW3lk in the next trip.
DID YOU KNO'N MOSES MOSRRIS6 N' ?
Q

Yes, I kneu lim for years.
went w..wayto mu~c -schoot ,

I told you yesterday Moses

DO YOU REMEMBEJ. \,'HERE HE TOOl[ THESE COURSES?

He went: to Vancouver f or two years. His right hand man an
music was Joe Starr. He took over the band."instruments.
WASN'T T}ffiRE ANOTHER BAND OUT KISPIOX7

NORTHERN LIGHTS?

I believekhat was after the Wild Wood Orchestl!a

but wildwood was real dancebusic oy Wilson Jeff Harri~ vhris
Harris}..
and oses. I used to go out to dan'ces when I was a
teenager, they use( to nave a some dan~y dances out Kispiox.
DID THEY fLAY ANY SPORTS!?
Oh yeah they played a lot ofball ever since I can remember
Ba seba l.L, football , wasn't all that popular t.hen, J:j8seball
was the big game and they used to have darn good games. A
lot of those players could have made the 'b;igleae;ues. That
was very much the thing t.odo, as for the depr-es siion nobody had
work to do so they had lots of time to play.
WHAT WAS THECOST TO TAKE A TRAIN TO PRIN~E RUPERT?
9,00 fishermen had a lesser deal, and had help from
Indian department. because SOme of them were pretty broke when
they went down. The ones that didn't have their own trapline
~ome of them had a fishing boat and trapline boy did they ever
make good money.
WHAT TYPE OF CLOTHING WAS FASHIONABLE?
Well there was something from what I fiFBt rmemebe ma
little girl from two years old to a grandmother dressed
identically long ankle lengJth dresses and sweater or lumber
jack mac. No bell bottoms just plain a lot of people wore
moccasins. A lot of uSlwo.re them at school. Two older women
made a lot ot their of own clothes because the stores couldn't
handle clOthes, in bulk and i~ was difficult to keep the
required sized. There is onekhing about Protestant Reserves,
they had ministers wives and smmetimes a women teacher misses
school and they taught the people on the Protestant reerves
a lot about housekeeping, sewing, cooking and all that stuff
the Carrier people missem out on for a lotig time cause they
had the priest come fmom through and SOme of them weren't all that
cooks. Well it's not until the A elgamation ofthe school here
that the native people smarten up their dress sO they look like
everyone else. You never seen a lady wearing jeans. They
stuck to wearing jeans. They stuck to wearmng their long
fashioned dresses. Like all Europeans.
WHAT KIND OF HEATING~S

USED?

Wood stoves alm)st exclusively.
WAS THERE ANYONE THAT SOD~ WOOD?
Yes, Marshall Bros. were the wood distributors they
had a whole lot up on fuhe processed road across fromthe
Salvation church right beside where Marggie Green used to live
and they had 100's of chords. I know that Harry, Bill Webster
and I took out over 200 chords of birch~ that was during
the depression.£'
CAN YOU TELL ME MORE ABOUT OMAR LEVESQUE?

-20-

Omar Levesque, he was a man of s~all statu,real!dvery.
wirey and active. Cause he used to rlde down tne rlver uSlng.
a pole sometimes he'd double them up andhold them together wlth
his fe~t and it didn't matter how deep the water was.
DID YOU KNOI

HIM FE SONALLY?

Yes, I knew him and his wife. They moved to Terrace after
the river drive had stopped and logging stopped around here ~.
and he moved to Terrace. He was there till he died.
(Q)

Did any new teachers come along?

Oh, we had new teachers every year "Just one?'" Yes, and
in the public school and in the high school. And their magnificant salary in those days was 70 or 80 dollars a month.
But then board and everything else was a lot cheaper. •.
They certainly made 80 dollars a month, but we only had to pay
a dollar a day for board. That was in the 50's and everything
was a lot cheaper then. You could buy a good suit of clothes
for less than twenty dollars. ~rs, Newick ran tl~ boarding
house at the end of the street, across from the big yellow
house.
The two teachers and about two of the teleeraph operateors
used to board there. That's quite a whole household.
~r~ Newick ran the drug store and done so for years.
<.;ooperWrinch had graduated as a druggist so he took it over.
Then the Newick family had to move out so they bought t<e big
house ther.eand turned it into a boarding house for quite a
few years. And about the time they quit varl Drake and Elsie
came here and she started a boarding house for the few people
that wanted to board. There was one other too, I can't
remember their name now, she had a boarding house next to the
Anglican chureh. Oh, she had about two or three boarders
there.
(Q9 hat did the boanding houses offer?
then you eat together?

Was it a room and

Yeah, just like living at home practically. A lot of
people like that, it was a lot less expensive than maintaining
a cabin or a small house of your own.
(Q)

When did the firs t 11\. V. co-ne out?

Oh, not too many years ago. When it first come out Gn
the market there were a few people that had them. ~ut we
didn't get much of a reception because of the; till we got
channel 9 out of Terrace. It was a hit and miss thing that
people try to get once in awh i Le , One of t.hemain en t er-t.a i.n-«.
ments here in town for quite a few years was the old Theatre,
the Hudson'-ay Hall.

-'2. \
(Q)

So it was the Hudson Bay hall?

Yeah, it was in behind where Neil Sterritt's house is,
sort of between that and Philip Morrison's house. I don't
know;rhow they got that piece of property but they had the
Hudson Bay hall. They used to have some dandy dances there
you know. It was a community centre actually in those days.
~ard parties an' dances. Those were the days when people more
or less had to make their own entertainment. There wasntt
much else to do. I listened to the first radio that was in
HazeL t orr; ..
(Q)

Was that eill Dawson"s radio?
No, Sargents.

(Q)

Dawson had a radio too didn't he?

No not for a long time. They had the, an old direct power
p~ant at the hospital. They couldn't use the radio over there
because of the interferance that, you know how to get it on the
radio here once in awhile when someone has their motor mhat me
-n' t .cbndensed properly or something like that. I know they
borrowed a radio from us. It must have been in the early '30's
to'see, run tests to see if they could put condensors on the
machinery. And it ruined their radio so that, it never was the
same anymore. That was THE home entertainment then. I can
remember the old phonographs too, the old cylinder. It operat
-ed with a needle that went across, with a big tin horn to them.
(Q)

What year did you get married?

1948. May the eighth we had the same anniversary~date as
my parents had.
(Q)

The dances were they only on special occasions?

No, they used to have about two dances a week in Hazelton
and two in New Hazelton. They would just come in and
They'd •••the local orchestra would play for them. In those
days they used to serve refreshments. The would get together.
They would bring some buns or sandwiches an' cakes. And for a
dollar to go to the dance. Danced all evening and had a nice
little treat. It was more or less a co-operative affair. It
wasn't commercialized all that much. The old New Hazelton hall
stood about where that garage building stood that Willans put
up. And it had the store and trucking business. When we
first ~ame here, the ~pooner family was running the ~afe.
'£hey gave up the cafe business and they turned it into the
communi ty hall.. It was a nice big building, somewhere to get
a start.
(Q)

Do you remember of any bank robeery?

No. Several brake ins at tne store, they blew the doors
off the safe of the Hudson l:)ayone time. Just blew it right
off. Sargent~s was blown over a couple of times too. Not a
bank robbery. The one at New Town it happened just about

-"1..2Three or four years before we came here. Up until afew years
well when the ~ilver Standard Mine was running they took that
big chunk of ore, a huge hig piece of ore, the minister of the
Methodist vhurch crouches down behind that with his six gun
blazing away at the robbers. There's a rumor that some of that
has been stashed up on the hill in New Town but nobodies been
able to find it.
(Q)

Do they have an estimate as to how much was taken?

I imagine they did. I never heard how much it was. But
it would be worth ten times more than what ti was then~ because
alot of the money was in gold coins. .tl'ive
and ten dollar
pieces.of gold. They didn~t have all much paper money in those
days.
(Q)

Which hill was this?
Which hill?

(Q)

Yeah, that t~ey think it's buried at?

Going up what they call six mile hill up toward smithers.
One of the robbers just cut across country, Apparently the
bag got tOJ heavy and cashed them under a big rock and nobody
has ever been able to find it. He took the paper money and
that sort of thing. ~ut they say he cashed the bag of coins.
He may have come back f'or- it or had someone come back for it
for him but nobody knows. You see that over the top of that,.
hill, once you get over the foot of the mountain. There's
a lot of big rock, oh about up to 10-15 f'e e t ci,n diameter that
he could have put something like that underneath the edge of.
~ig rocks that rolled off the mountain years ago. One thing
that we don't hear anymore is the terrific slides that used
to come down off of H.ouche de .!::Soule.
You know where t..ra t one
kind of a gully cut down? Every spring there~d be a big lot
of rock loosened up by the frost and they'd come tumbling
down. It sounded like thunder.
(Q)

Wasn't Silver ~tandard Mine 1n behind Houche de boule?

No, that was the; well the Rouche de Boule Mine was up
on top, behind the peak you know. There's quite a valley in
behind the peak and then you get up to a still even higher
peak. And the Rouche de Boule Mine was up there. Dad worked
there when he first came out here. He kept
of it.
The little locomotives that they used to haul the ore. Tney
brought the are down :to the road at Gdrnaby by aerial tram.
Buckets coming down on a cable. I don't know if you can still
see it or not, but it's not that long ago the old tressel was
still visible up top of the mountain.
(Q)
Were there any mines that didntt have trams and used
lets say maybe rawhide to shoot down the side of the mountain?

No they •••rnosthad some kind of a road into them because
everything was horse and wagon then. There were alot of places

-23-

where a horse and wagon would go instead of a truck. That's •••
they hauled most of the )o~e outof the Mohawk Mine. The one
you can see from just up by Two Mile there. Right on the
shoulder of that hill on the sout.henend of N .ne Mile. It
was just a vein that went right through that little part of the
hill and it came out theother side and there was just no more.
And up theNine, whet they call the Nine Mile oad, then up
to Two Mile Creek was the american ~oy Mine. That didn't
amount to much more than a prospeet. They did ship a little
bit of ore out of there. Someone that could tell you more about
that is charlie Olson cause he livea it. Farther up around
the north end of themountain of course was the Silver Cup Mine.
They had big trucks to haul from there. ~~t th~y had a tremendous
amount more quality in those too than they do now because
now when they open up a mine, they have a mill. They mill it
right down to concentrate almost ready to smelto In those
days it was half rock y)u know it used to have to be separated.
pounding it with hammers. Then I wo~ked up at the Red Rose
Mine in Skeena Grossinv. Yeah they closed it down. Not because
they wanted to grind the shalite better. Tungsten from Spain
to keep Germanylrom buying it. Then They closed down this
mine. Then they opened it up again just after the war. ~ut
they as far as I can see from tbe •••having wonked there they're
using the wrong procedures. They were losing a lot of the
values. You see when did there for shalite. I was one of the
mill operators and we were getting 97-98 percent up with and
chemicals a1 all and then when the next outfit took over they
started to grind it finer and put through floatation and
got a little bit of gold value and copper value out ofit. And
they loosened up the shalite, you know, thebest kind of steel
THEY JUST DIDN'T _nINEFa

ONE THING IN ALL THESE MINE S7

Well they were more or less conglomerate ore, there WEre
different veins of it metals. Th~~ were mi~ed in to one foot.
And they had different ways. l!'loatationwas the most sophisticated
way of separating. Although we used to separate the gold.
voncentrate it from theshalite that always keep the water separate
We had tables there that we called willfly tables. They were
surfaced with battleship lineoleum and then on top they had a
series of half-ground wooden strips put on. And thetable of the
tip down in theend and overto the side a little bit. And the
strips got shorter and shorteras they got down lower. And theY'd
just vibrate like an accentric an off-centre pivot andit would
throw all the heavy stuff along the top. The gOld a little
streak of go alongup at the top and theshalite would Come off
the end and all the dirt and that's the way they acceDted it.
THat was a wicked place to work though, they had a broad
miLl there were 3 inch round 4 feet long steel roads, and they
put about 20-25 ofthose in the mill and that's what garfed the
ores of those things bouncing around it sounded like there were
abmut thousands of blacksmith's with hammers. It was unbelievable.

-24In those days they didn't have these ear protectors like they
have now. I had to quit there because 1 just couldn't stand the
noise, I had my ears injured in theair force and I just couldn't
take thenoise.
I tried the Silver ~tandard andthat was different
trlat was what you called a ball mill and it didn't make that
clanging noise it was justa drumble like thunder andit didn't
hurt the ears that much.
Yeah, there V18S qui te a bit ofprospecting around here,
the thenfuey did quite a bit of prospecting
Ward Marshall
and his partner Harry Simpson staked claims upon that mountain.
across from Kispiox but they the veins weren't quite big enougb
to entice a company to mine or grade.
Molybdum, •••Moly •• but there just wasn't enough of it.
I think the company mwd it for a few thousand dollars for an
option of the prOfit a little bit more than the local ••••••••••
.

e never mid have. ~uch plaster gold aroupd here ~ don't
was too broken and.; - - plaster gold was ma i.n.Ly car-r i ed down
to the glacier part and these mountains arenot worn off enough
to indicate that the that anything scraped off theplates are
useless.
1t

In places were
they do find the gold kind of table top
mountamns where the tops are knJcked ri&~t off of tiem where
each of t hem were ••••• (mumble)
There's one area going through the Yukon where all the
tables are practically sawn off at the top of there oftne
mountallns where they are perfectly flat no peaks on them at all
but their quite high.
The difference in money thpt people can earn when they
buil t the previous hospi t.aL here their wages were 40¢ an hour for ordinary workers and 50i an hour for carpenters because
they used their own tools and the contracting price fOr that building
was
75 000. You can only builu a good house for that kind of
money.
That gives ~ou some idea f'or- the economic changes most
prominent.
Illustration you can have actually.
Yeah, I wonked on
that job there for ~he Summer they built it. That was built
the same s~mer
that the qagwilget bridge and the previous
bridges there and t~at dumb hospitAl job(mumble ••• )(from Hagwilget
I worked for 2 bits an hour because I was an apprentice.
$2.00
a day but I don't know, duringthe depression that was thesame
as 20 at least.

on)

-25ABOUT HOW W~h~ JOBS

DID

YOU ACCOMPLISH?

Oh i just did odd jobs like during the depression there
was nothing steady. So that jUl'lt
left me up until 1942 before
I started ~ooking for a steady job, and then I worked for
Marshall dros. for I guess for a totaL of 4-5 years1 the
forestry for 4 seasons and then I worked at the hospital for
a year, highway de par-t.meo t for a year and then I worked at
the mine for 5-6-years and 19 years as postmaster.
I had a couple of years af fill-inns as bartender(mumble)
A couple of ye8rs when Harry Webster was running theo+d
Hotel for Sargents I was •••••mumble ••••• )
DID

PEOPLE

ACTUALLY

GO OUT OF HAZEL'rON

FOR T}1EIR

HOLtD

YS?

Oh yeah.
WHERE DID

THEY GO?

Most of them had families and friends or smmeone they
could visit ••••mumble ••••• Some ofthem took time off to go
fishing or hunting or whatever th~ like to do around here,
and I did r or the first 10 y ear-a ••••• Mumble ••••••• )
v
Holiday periods weren't all that long in those days most
of them were about 2 weeks •
••••Mumble •••.•• for very long. But we used to oh but
w 'd go up to the hotel for a barbecue and go to Smithers and
sometimes follow the baseball, go up and watch some baseball
games for a day. Probably have 2-3 games in one day until
the playoffs. That wou~d save a lot of travelling.
THERE '.S SOlv'1E OTHER PEOPLE WHO LVlENTIONED THE TELKWA
EA' BECUE,
WHAT WAS 1HAT ALL ABOUT?

It was a little bit like a rodeo, it had horse races and
not so much of the bucking bronco stnff thatit was interesting
the highlight of the Telkwa Barbecue was the barbecue beef
There was a couple of big slices of beef and a couple of slices
of bread. The beef was just like a beef steak and oh it
was delicious, put barbecue that's what they called pit-barbecue
::>mithersfall fair that was something thatyou all the
ladies would enter their jams and jellies and flowers and
vegetables, all the rest of it just to get in on the prizes.
fhe old fair building is still standing there, I don' t
know what they use it for now used to go into Smithers I can't
say ••••mumble ••mumble ••••l and they had horse racing they
had (mumble ) back road races);
WHAT WAS PIONEER

DAYS LIKE

IN

THOSE

DAYS?

~ou mean here, they haven't been at it for too long, they
just sort of I don't know they ferried them a little bit
one year they had sOme people dressed up in old costumes