TRIBUNE: How do you wie it in East Ger- many ?. REICH: It is an exciting ibe to live for a variety of reasons. Despite the wall the border isn’t really closed. Tens of thousands of people can go across it without any difficulty. You do not have to apply for a visa if you are a West German or a national of any other state. You just show your passport. You fill in a‘form and you are in East. Berlin. There are no limitations. You can go where you want, talk to whoever you want. You press a button on your TV, you change the dial on your radio and you have all the West before you, in the language of the land. TRIBUNE: Is this in ‘East ae only, or unona out: East Germany? — REICH Particularly in East Berlin and in cities not far—but most of them are not far—from a powerful TV station in West Germany. Besides, you can turn your antenna or get a converter and manage to see a West German channel. There is a complete interpenetration as far as West Berlin goes. There is also some effect from the East toward the West. But it is a fact that there is a lot more known about West Germany - in East Germany than vice versa. TRIBUNE: Would you say there is sort of an open dialogue? REICH: Yes. This is one of the things which makes life exciting there. Besides, in-East Ger- many there are no restrictions on the way a person lives, People are very modern. East Ger- many can be compared in its style of life to any advanced western country, up to the point that in East Berlin you have girlie shows, you have night ‘life, you have night clubs. that stay open | to three’or four in the morning. There is a continuous debate and exchange on all questions connected with public life, including the question of democracy. TRIBUNE: What about democracy? REICH: People are:not afraid to say what they feel, to criticize if they think they should criticize. TRIBUNE: Would this’ apply to any East German? Or do you feel that representing the press and being a foreigner makes a difference? - REICH: Many would be afraid. This fear is not a thing of just the past 20 years. Unwilling- ness to speak out before authority is the German sickness. It applies to East Germany ; it applies to West Germany. TRIBUNE: It is a ss rule that in a social- ist country people are not afraid to criticize a bureaucrat, or a militia man, or any government official. Is this the essential question of democ- racy? REICH: democracy ? People are not afraid to express their _ annoyance, But you might ask how there can be democracy if people are not allowed to travel. I would say this is the major complaint in East Germany, the complaint that has remained after many other things have improved. TRIBUNE: What about the wall? REICH: A short time after the wall was built What is it really like in Fast Germany MAX REICH the Tribune’s correspondent in East Berlin has been visiting Canada. The Tribune staff decided to ask him a few questions about East Germany, which, with his answers, are published below. West. What is the essential question of. there was a strong wave of propaganda in the West. “The little freedom they gave you because they were forced to, because people could escape, ‘will go and all of East Germany will become a. concentration camp,” they wrote. There was some apprehension in certain circles in East Germany that the liberal kind of life they led would disappear. The paradox is that the country was closed off and liberalization and democratization began to flourish because the country could begin to stabilize. TRIBUNE: Could the wall come down? REICH: If there could be an understanding that West Germany will not make a concentrated effort to get people to cross over and stay, travelling between East and West Germany would. be no problem, In West Germany people do not know: from direct experience. They believe what they hear on the radio and read in the papers, that this is a concentration camp, that everyone is afraid of being arrested; you can’t open your mouth; you can’t say a word; you are starving and have nothing to put on; this is the picture in the minds of most West Germans. Yet East Germany has become a strong centre of attraction. So the wall could disappear in a short time, or it could be made very penetrable with a minimum of good will by the West German government. TRIBUNE: How are living standards in East Berlin compared to the rest of East Germany? REICH: I wouldn’t say East Berlin is poorer; but due to the tensions that still come from West Berlin there is less relaxation there than in other cities. In other East German cities life is gayer and jollier. The standard of living is the same. West Berlin used to be the window to te West. But this was stopped. East Berlin has now) become the window to the East for many in th TRIBUNE: How does the average person live . REICH: Like people in highly-developed be ; ern countries. They eat well, dress very Wo’ Every girl goes to the hairdresser once a wees TRIBUNE: Are they interested in fads aa fashions? REICH: They are very interested i in fashion TRIBUNE: The automobile probably makes * 3 big difference? REICH: Yes. That is one reason people ish their lives to cross the wall. TRIBUNE: What about Beatle haircuts? REICH: Recently I noticed that more peatl were wearing Beatle haircuts. A discussion 5¢/ started in the press. “What are we going t0 with them?” The first tendency. was: “we m not allow our youth to become corrupt.” 8 here is another contradiction. Some people with' the party are very liberal; some are more flex Young people dance the twist and rock and roll They have discussions. Poetry readings ha” become very popular. TRIBUNE: Where do they do this? REICH: Well, all the halls, the university and there is a large number of youth clu”, Usually poetry readings are filled to capacity: they are interested in the lighter side of ent® tainment there is a theatre that. does nothil® i but musicals, There is also a satirical theatr@ | Americans and foreigners don’t believe their €? t at the irreverant way everything is criticized. TRIBUNE: Why do people eross. the bord? illegally ? REICH: Suppose someone painted a . pictiiredl y the United States in which he said people *, desperate, starving, and to get money for for sh they rob banks, take risks of imprisonment, eW of being shot. Ridiculous, you would say. But vil do bank robbers take the risk? People take the risk of crossing the border ot! of adventurism. Another reason is that in i East you cannot become rich without doing ¢ good. job. Some people want to make a lot money easily and in a hurry. They find life in iol Germany distressing and try very hard to across. TRIBUNE: Do people go the other wee REICH: East Germany has become a point! attraction for people who have financial diffic ties, persons with large families. Rent in Germany is very high. Since the war 70,000 P” sons have been admitted into East Germany: | don’t know how many applied. For others the way of life is an attracti@™ I met a woman who was born in a village ? in East Germay. She lived in the West but mal frequent visits. She said she began to feel We a ae _ a human being again every time she eros the border. She decided finally to live in B® Germany. December ue 1965—PACIFIC TRIBUNE—Pag?