MONDAY JULY 15/85
Interview with

Vi Smith

WHERE WE :E Y U BO

?

I was born right h re in ~azelton
SO YOU'VE B"EN LIVI G HERE ALL YOU

LIFE?

All my lif except for three years when I went to school.
Residential ~chool.
WHAT

AS YOUR

AlDEN NAME?

c~ifford.
WHAT WE~

YOU

Charles and

PARENTS NAME?
abel Clifford.

IS CHARLIE CLIFFORD YOUR B OT-TER?
Yeah, Ir ne Patsy is my sister.
THEY' E ALL BO~N HERE?
Oh, yes th y're all born here
DO YOU HAVE ANY SOlS OR DAUGHT:; S?
Yes, Six sons and thr e daughters.
HO~ WOULD YOU DESCRIBE YOURSELF?
I hav good thoughts about myself I'm glad I am me. I wouldn~t
b anybody Ise. I wouldn't change places with anybody. I'
happy with myslef. I f el I'm very w 11 adgusted adult. But
that doesn't
an to say that Inver
had problems. So I had
problems but I was able to d al with them because of theway
I f 1 about myself. lean look at myself honestly and I know
my weaknesses and my strengths. I try to develop my strengths
and that's what se me through, an? when probl ms arise
I can deal with them with out goingbfff the deep end.
':{HATDO YOU REME BER ~TffiN Y U 'IErtE G OWING UP FRO CHILD TO
TEENAGER?
I guess the one important thin~ I r member most was when I was
small child was the Nay I related to my parents. Right from the
beginning they made me f el thatI was a very special person.
Th y gave me a lot of Lov e and a lot of support. I think that

-2-

was an important thing in my life. If I had been uncared for
as a child I don'~ know if I'd have the strength that I have
today. becaus of th ir •• of letting me know that Ivas special
that gave my the streng~h I have today. I learnt a lot from my
parents I didn't always appreciate it at the time but now that
they are gon and I'm an adult I reaaly appreciate. what they
did for me and the lessons they tried to teach me.
HOW DID YOU lET SCOTTY?
Just through so~ial events in Hazelton. I went to school to
th little school down by theriver we call it the Anglican ,all
now. That's where I went to school. It was a church that
stablished the school they carried all the expenses and th~n
wh n the r'overn'J1ent
saw that it was needy nd working they
decid d to support it. I went there to grade four and t.hen 1
went away to residential school down in Sardis, b.\.;, Sardis
is a couple miles from vhilliwack. I went there b cause my
parents wanted me to have a better education than the big school
was hearmng it was very ••• theteachers weren't wha you call
qualifiea teachecs now, but I guess they were o.k. for the
day.
hey wer usually the Anglican PriesEs. They did it
out of love for the native peopl needed an edacatio~to adapt
to this changing world. 'I'ha't
's why they s t.ar-t.e r the school
and the government ~upported it helped it financially. ~ut
the minister wasn't paid as a teacher. He had his staple as
a prie~t. And for years we thought that was only af~erthe
second world war that the government really took over and
supplied qu~lified teach rs and so because my parents realized
I had to live and surrive in a ctt.ngingworld that was
rapidly changing. They sent me away to a United Church school
a boarding school that was supported by the United ~hurch I
came back here and took my grade eight ther was no Grade eight
at that little church ectj~l. It went went 'only as far as
this s~ool.
vad had to goto apply to the school board to get
permission for me to go to echool its not like now. Thelndman
and white children were separate. W had our own scho~l
and to go there. My dad had to go to the school board to get
permission, he didn't hB'Te any problembccause th y were all
.aenhe knew. Like Allen benson, oill Sarg n t , Mr. Sargent Sr.
They wer all theschool board and other people heknew that
he'd grown to be friends with in his eye. ~o I didn(T
have any problems geting into the s~ool. I took my high schgol
here.
c,

HERE IN HAlELTON?
Yes, It was an old building that burnt down. That was right across
from where that Tribal Council building is now. \here that little
hous is, Ward ;,'arshall'
shouse.
That's where the high school was,
I went there, an~ there might have been a dozen~ Half of them Vvere
coming from New Town, and those students walded down. There was
no bus and in t~e winter time they walked down in the deep snow
be~ore the roads could be plowed.

-3-

WERE THERE ANY PROBLEMS OF BEING LATE?
Well tney were given an excuse for that if it was snowing and you X
know if'the roads wer-e snowed in, it took time for them to get here
plus there were excused for that. I did my high school ther~, and
that's how I met Scotty. I was just through social events that
I was able to mix. I was probably one of the Dew to mix with both
cultures. T got to know them through high school, and mv fathere
had white friends. Also we lived next door, rig~t down here rHth~r
than up on the hill. I lived over in that house where Charlie lives
now. That WRS whare our house was. The neighbors that renteo the
house that was here were w~ite people, and the Sargent's were rig~t
next door, so I was sble to adjust respondeoly alot quicker than
alot OD my native children because o~ the environment. Then I
went 13.wayto school, and it was predominantly r-unby whi t eLpeop'l e ,
We only spo e English there, because that's the way we learned,
but I didn't forget the languare. I mean t can't put the blame,
I can't cop out and use it a"" , excuse and blame the schoo.Lt!for
~orgetting my language. I don't have that excuse.
I C8ffiehom~ every summer. I can remember coming home on the
train. Charlie and I, we were trving to remember the Indian words
because there was just English spoken there. Although there were
Nishga people there, and I ~ould here them talk among t'lemselves
in their own language. There were children there of all different
nationalities, like, you know, dif~erent Indian nationalities.
What you call Indian now. l\ative people, they all had their own
language. Thay used them, they weren't supposed to you know. ::!_
I the classroom thev weren't allowed to use it, but just talking
among themselves the usually did. 1 used to listen to the Nishga's,
you know. I could understand that and so maybe through them I
was able to keep my language. BeC'ause we spoke it at home, I had
no problem with th~ language at all, RUd neither did Charlie.
CHARLIE ~,ENT iJITHYOU DOvlN TO SC:mOL?
Charlie? Oh ye ah , he went, a couple of years after I did. i'Ve had a
cousin that attended thdt school, so it Na hardl- recommended, but
people that dad talked to, and thct's wh- t~ey chose thet school.
T'!eycould've sent me to another school. There was a school in
lert Bay that I could've gone to which was run by the Anglican
Church, and there was another one in Litton which was run by the
Anglican Church, but dad and mom selected the one run by the United
Church because it was highJy recommended. My dad also had a niece
there who was a senior and -felt comfortable that she was there to x
sort of see that everything was alright wi. th me because I was only
ten years 010.
DO YOU RE~r.I]3E

:IER F A!JlE?

Hattie Ferguson, she was Hettie !~rrison. ~he's from here, she's
dead ow. She's Hattie Fer~uson, but she brceme quite well known in
working with native organizations down in Vancover. She was in
Vane over when she oiea only two o~ three years ago, but she used to
come np here periodically. She understood the Indian culture. I'm
not too sure whether she unnerstood the language. J don't think she
used the language, because her parents separated when 9':1e
was very
small E1Uashe went a-av with here dad and they lived sown in-the
States, so she wes away from the Languc.s-e , But she knew the

-4-

cuIture. She studied it throughly. She wan t.edto kno ~ who she
was, where she came from. For that reason, when she became an adult
she stu ied the Gitksan language (culture) so she knew it t~DrQughly.
S'leknew who she was, she knew what her. Indian name wa , what her-;
crest was, wha t clan she came from, you know, she knew all that.
She knew the legends and stories becaube she made it a point to
find out.,cause she was awav :'rom it and she wanted to "'<now. She
was 8 very interestjng lady. I \,orked domestic work after I didn't
gr2duate when my older s'ster died. She wied when 'rhelma Blackwater
was born. She was my niece. Somebody had to look after the baby
so my mother took the baby, and in the course of time, mv mom got
sick. ,-'1 think _ had about three months to go to gr-ad I? when my
sister died and we ended up with the baby. 1 stayed home to help
mom look after the baby because my mom was sick.
1

THAT WAS THELMA?
Yes, 'T'helmaBlackwater. She,had two other kids 1 she was married to
Dick (Richard) Lattie and she had Kenny andDickle. He (Dick) kept
them and we took the babt~ Wp raised her so she's mbre like a
sister to me thpr a ni'ce. So that "as why I didn't graduate, I
suppose. I probabl r used it as an excuse to quit school. Thee..::..
DIA d i.dn't pay for students to go awa a t rthe time. When I went
away it was just my parents. They always sent us because they
wantec us to have a good education than I was getting at day school.
But the Indian Agent did come and say if you do i.e lI in school, and
you want to go bac~ the second year, we'll help you with you expenses
and you can go S"lvayand train as a teacher and co e bacl; and teach
your own people. That's probably what had turned me off. 1 probably
would have made that choice on mv own, but I didn't want them telling
me what to do. 1 didn't want to be bond with this promise.
f
they hae said yes we'd go away and help you with this expense, 1 don't
know if I woule have, but I did go away, I pro' 2blv would have came
back and talked, you see because th3y put that thing on saying
come back .and ~each here. I normally bound by it. I was a very
rebellious young person. I rebelled things I felt weren't in my
own, even though
didn't realize jt, I was re~elling at them telling
me what to do. I'm making a stipulatmon, but I came back hore and
teach, I didn't want to be bOlmd b that. In the end that's what
1 probably would have done aYlyway. 'Yhat's the rer-son I didn't take
them up on their offer. They weren't paying for students going
away at the time, and they weren't going to pay for all mine, they
were going to help, probably a pretty liLtle sum. I remember wh n
the elders were really quite old and my Grandmother was one o~ them.
Their monthly :elp to the native people was four dollars a month.
dnS

T:IET

VERY GOOD?

It w[s. Itwasn't in money, It was little things li.ke tea, and coffee
and cocoa, &nd things li~e that. I can remember my GrBndmother didn't
even know ~hat cocoa was. 1 remember she boilled it on the stove.
They were giving her food she wasn't even familar with. She \vas
familar with tea because that's what they had. You know th,.gave

-5her cocoa and she oidn't know vhDt it was ~or so she boiled it on
the stove,
T remember we laughed and we went to sny "Granny, what
do v ou have on the stove?"
. She said "VeIl t.aat
nd i an Agent peoples said t.hey gave me
this tin of cocoa, t~ev never told me how to cook,it.
I remember
iN
showed here how to do it.
"Oh,' she said,"Oh, that's so o i.mpLe"
and she t as t.ed it and we put canned milk in it for her. She was
just trying to dr-Ink it vi t.hou+ the c annec miLk , So this is some
of the stupid things that the DIA dio,_eh, just giving these things
w'thout thinking of showing them how to use those.
It was ~oreign
to her, she didn't know what it was at the time.
It »ee through soc i a'l events when I got to meet him (Scotty),
I knew him for a long time.
I knew him (or 5 years before I married
him.
I just got to know him, it wasn't anything I rushed into, and
he certainly wasn't my first boyfriend.
I got married when I was
ready, wh~n I was good 2nd ready to get m2rried.
It wasn't anythin~
I rushed into.
LID

SCOTTY

PLt'.Y B SEB' 1L7

Oh ye s , he did. He played wi t.h Neil and Bill Sargent.
are the only two that are still here.
YOU ,EriE m~ T:m HAZELTON E01'lE TEAM?

1 guess

those

DID YOU ENJOY FLAYING?

Oh yes, in Pact I W2S very instrumentally
in sett.ing up softball
for the woDen here.
VeIl for 8 lot of a better name we called it the hometea::.. r
guess when we'd invit.e people to play we were the hometeam, the name
kind of stuck, so then they had another team later on 'cause ther~
1 (s
only the ladies who wanteo Lo play who only picked so many on
one team.
They called it the maple leafs.
lieused to play against
them.
Vr.IEN YOU GUYS TR.\VELLED

A~Om;D,

you

USED

'lARD ~vIAHSIIALL'

TRUCK?

Hmmh, yeah, we used Ward's truck, and there weren't that many vehicles
around at the time.
~,~ostof t lre time Scotty was the driver at the
time. He would take bothe the men and the women's t e.am and that's
how we trevelled around.
r remember one year in toricetown we camped right at John Brown's
creek.
The both teams, you know, because it was a 2 day event,
and we were going to participate both days and it was a long way
at the time. The roads weren't paved, so we just camped and took
tent5 and our parent s came wi th us, I remember my parents came. Just
all the frunilies came and we used to have fun because even if it
WdS
a day trip everybody would ta ce lunch, who l e families went.
they didn't go in the truck, but they had other vehicles.
And they
would take picnic lunches with them.
It was just e fun day for
everybody.
SO YOU KNE,'

S~OTTY

O:JGER r;:IEN ?

Oh yes, a long time be~ore r got serious about him, f0~ one thing.
intermarriage,
you know betw€ n the dif~erent cultures, was really
n?t ~cce'Ptab!e.
What pe~ple didn't Ii e, and our people certainly
dldn t.J1ke 1t~ _An~_a~ln
mother was verymuch against it, so you know

- 6-

we just went at it slowly and we finally decided that it was
something 'we could cope with. I had to t.hi.nkabout the result of
the children, what might come out of that. 'w'lhat
they might go
through, 'cause I ~ent through niscrimination but it didn't bothp.r
me that IDuch. I didn't let °t interfere with my life, yo~ know
I f~el that if they descriminated against me that was their proplem,
it wasn't mine. ~here fore it's for them to solve I didn't worry
about it.
DID ':OU STILL HAVE YOU STA~US?
Oh yes, until I got married.
YOU CAN STILL GET IT B~CK.
Oh yes, I can still get it back, without any problem proviDing the
band excepts me. But I don't think that at this stage in my life
I fron't t~jnk that's what I want. I worked hard for everything I
got and I'm satisfied in what I got. I f I was a younger person I
might have made maybe a better education for my children, that was
the only thing I pr-obab'Ly mi ssed out on, that my children didn't
get the education cause there just wasn't the money., You know
that would helD. But at this stage, no.
';:"..
T KIND C::!'
JOBS DID YOU DO?
Mostly domestic and I worked at the store a little bit down in
Rupert, and just there were no openinings for native girls at the
time. TlIllat
was one of LIe decriminations, but most of the work was
domestic, and the thing to far a young girl to stay hame ~~d learn
at home, and which I did that too. 1~~T mother taught me a lot of
what I should do if I should set housekeeping on my own. I was
able to do everything. You 'l<:now
that she taugh me, and I am vcrv g
grateful for that.
YOU NEVER DID ANY COAST FIS~IING?
Oh yes, I worked in the canneries. r:.y dad was a fisherman too. r,~om
and I workea in the canneries until a~ter I got married. I never
ever went back. I started to raise my family, I didn't have time
~or extra things.
HO i ~ulliY CANNERIES ,VEREOPErtATED?
From this side there was ast Port. I worked in East Por then I
spent a lot of mv time in Port Essington. They called it the BTV
cannery. That was the big cannery that's the tcwn around it. The
canneries were just canneries, just you know the cannery and workers
and shac'....
s , But Port Essington was a Lit t Le town, it would be,
we spent a lot of our time there, and then there was Sunnyside and
orth Pacific and Karl Island and Klax-Smi th across t '.e river.
Inverness is 3GVen and Port Edward is e i g'at, I guess t.her-e was
eight cannerie~ along the Skeen, ~nd I thin~ there was one in
Rupert too, but I never did ~now where it was, it WRS along the
waterfront somewhere I guess. So there was probably nine canneries.

- 7 _

SO

ID TIIEY SLO' DO fi'N QUITE A BIT?

Yeah, we used to go. It was kind of a holiday I remember one year
we even went when the flood washed out the railway and we couldn't
€{>odown to t.~e C013.stat the time.
I C:2n rememter the year thet,
;-t ~s the fL:st y ar that our perents allowetj us to go an our own.
dIy s i s t ar- Add i e and I.
,'Iehad to go around Vanc ovez- and get on t.ae
stesmboat and come up throup:h the Skeena and I remember how excited
we were 'cause it was the first time that our Qarents allowed us out
on our own. I must have been eighteen.
I can remember Teff 3ilson
w~s on ~he tning.
I don't k~ow i~ he was, he might have been with
hlS parents.
But you ~now it -vas just all younger people, we just
had a ball.
It wasn't the accommodat i ons 01'1 the t r-ain and especially
t~e boat.
we came up stearage 'cause it w~s the chearest wav I
guess.
~,

so ~:_El ~

.i AS t. LOT 0:-'

PEOPLE

ON ~:r2: 'J'PJ~:; ?

9h ves , 'ive,just••• It was just a lot of fun :'or us because
It. ~t was dif~erent an~, ••• of course
time \'e were allowed out on our own.
DO YOU RE:.~:.~1.-'R
rns

HAPPY SIX 0

T

"'3E

T.Io

we enjoye
as I said, it was the :'irs~
IiZ?

Oh yes,
remember the Happy Six. They were the Happy Six.
iiehad
a lot of fun then.
:e used to travel wjth them, they went allover.
They were quite famous for their good music.
Everybody wantec to hire
them.
Th_y would travel around,
I c~n even remember !Iagwilget
having a hall.
~ can remember we, Neil's sister and I were good
friends.
Her name was At!nus, and we must. have been seventeen •
.le were sill going to high schoo l , end v>Jevvere never allowed out
on our own. Ei thE'r one par-ent was wi th us. iVe always had a
chaperone.
It wasn't because they d~dn't trust us, it was because
thev loved us so much that they wan tea to see if we ~ere 6.K. all
the time. So there was always an adult.
I can remember we wanted
to go to Tiagwilget because the Happy Six was going +he r-e ana then
all the Pe~ own kids came down.
Of course mother and dad said
no ',ay,you're not going up there.
Al:yway my friend and I got worl.:'ne, finally yqu know got
t31~ing about it, finding a way to go up t~ere.
~inally hp.r~mother
said O.K., I'll go wi th you.
So we wal ke d up and she came wi th us.
Jesf,ie Ste'T.'ri
t, she eIway s had a Li t t l.e lantern.
I can remember the
time we ;ere al10 ed to stav out after de~k.
If we staved just
about later than we s:-touldhave, but we c;.n see this little lantern
coming, we'd be~t it home.
But anyway, "Ne walked up and th in we were able to go.
I
admire here, she sat all through that evening, just to A.gnus and I
cou'ld have some fun. A,'1dwe'd walk sown wi th the who l.e orchestra
and ;t must have been 3:) below i. n Januarv sometime.
vvhen I think
of that, it's so stupid now, but we enjoyed it.
I admire ~y
par-ent.sand ne op'le like Mrs. Sterri tt and there were ti.mes when my
pal
s couldn't go with me, that J~ssie wou d bee=use she's my aunt.
She would go, and she had I 0 like her d -ugh t er Martha, 1"'10 Li ked to
go too. So I alwa;vs had a chaperone and even when I had a chaperone,
even when I had my da te s down t.r-ecoast, my mether was with me.
Florence didn'i mind, she was just there. I thin~ I Qust have been
18 or 19 be f'or-eI was al Lowed to go out on mv own, but I had a
chs:seron~- all t!1e time.
didn't mind, I think" it wes kind of
Y"

••••

- 8 -

comfortable to know your mother or your father was there, with you
until you adjust wi th t.heother k i.ndof social Li ?e ,
liHE1T YOU GUYS 1.:2:::8 G'"'I:;70 T'~:
PHINSE GEORGE',FOR t. 1',GHT?

fER,

_CU GUY3 STOFPED

OF:;' ..''>.T

can t r-emember- if they WOLJld stop in Traoloops1 but I can remember
that was the ~irst time that t relized how hat lt coul~ be. T~At
day in }'amloops, it WGS hot, somebJdy remembered the cates.
t

Yeah, they had to stop for some minor prejestrian for trade, or
somet~ing. ;e didn't CRre what the stop was for. It WRS a ~reak,
oh it was hot. That was my first time in Kamloops.
DID vCU GO Cr-: ANY .iCLIDAvS ,VITHYOUR PARENTS?
at what you consider a ~olidn7 tod9", ~ut we did a lot o~ camping.
did a lot of berrv pic~'ng. It was sort of combined .ith the work.
It was a lot of hard work, but we also combined it with fun. "ami.Li es
would go out can~ir.g, go up nine-~ile mountain or u at the Hazelton
View -,10untain. Or we would camp 0 t at Ki.sp i o in t.heValley _~or
a week pic~ing lue herr'es. Just dependjng on what there was. So
that was our holiday and I consider going down to the cannery a
hol i da: becau e even though it was a vor-k i.ngholiday it was a change •
Ie

..:0'" 1m G: DID I'T1m eWE Y~U ro GET A~OUND T: OUGI Y. JCOVER TO RU?ERT?
.j.

t took f'or-ever-,
it must have be.rl a week. 'f\vod'" s alone on the
Cardena, on the boat. It took two days. It was slow , those old
boats 'cause thev went through very villa~~e along the way. Oh , I'd
say it took three or four davs.
TiO

j

LOHG DID IT 'T'E YOU 'T'OGET TROM RUPERT TO HZ;tE?

A day, vou can figure a day, because sometimes at wpi;d ;eave
ear;y morning here and by the time it got down ••• liKe if TOU were
going to Port Essington you would p,et off a :asi Port and then the
boats can ta1re you across.
"d say a full day. '
DO ~OU P-E;rE:' 3Ei.cr"P~ ..;G T:r.. ~ .. APP:.1'L"'j) DOd J I,:rcSIm;"'LI~TS JUST l=1EFORE
T!IE ""RAr~ ':'00" OFF i'0 RUPERT?
!o, I wasn't a part o~ that.
YOU JU3~ DROVE OVER?
It woul~ be ~or the peoDle who came from the other vj1 ages, but
not those of us who a-re here we ver.t straight acro::s to the station
thct t~ey used to ~ave down there •
•..
~N I;JD :':{ATPRIDG', GO?
1936.
This was c=fore that flood washed it out, because T rememher
bJing across t~is ridge to go to the station unless we got on in
ew Town, I really don't remember if we did, we could have.
r';olt.hebri ""e ent out in 19~6, because
can r-emember- when
that brldge went, it was Rgter I had mv first child in 1939.
It
as wJ.,.en
~'t r.I
had married
Scott ..
'-caus I' remember we had !:ickv with
us,
ve were
gOln,..over.

-

- 9 -

Fo, I don·t think it went out in 1936.

Vou'll have to ask mv
husband.
':e's bet ~r about the dates than
am. :let 11 remember the
dates, I don't.
doubt if it went ~ut in 1936.
That was the first big flood
where t.he r-i dge didn't go when the water vas up here, we wer-e almost
.cut off here at t1,.18t
first flood ceme up 9S far as that, where that
Hotel is now, where Sam's is now, it came up that far. Then up
as .far as the other side of thq school. ~Jravbearound where Fanny
Smith is now, it came up, ~o w just had this narrow strip here.
I
re mber Auntie Jessie was living down that way and she.