Mrs. Catherine Spencer What did you rea11y like in Prince Rupert? Te1l me how you got into newspaper business? Well actually I was going to business college in Prince Rupert didn't want to be a nurse and I didn't want to be a teacher want to go on to higher education course and then after I graduated lawyers office like to work in a newspaper and thought because on holidays a job of newspaper they had eight-teen alot while work applications Right at the bottom, way right at the bottom of I was there and it was very type of work to be in because to it you see. When, later on somebody that was in me and I could do it. course. intersting there's had gone you could take their place and I found out then, write and I had never taken a Journalistic because I needed I'd be good in a newSPaper. and accounts, and I found it an interesting so much variety me to see if I could, thought I did start there. and posting I learned phoned in a I did go down there and found afterwards That was what he said anyway down circulation so I took a business and I said," Well yes." liked my personality ahead of me but anyway and I didn't a couple of weeks I work and I hadn't at all and so eventually the ladder. I worked and then the newspaper and I don't care where somebody in that account and I I could It was just something This was much to my surprise I didn't know I could and one reason I found out I could was that a young fellow that had been in the army was going to start a magazine Rupert in Prince my h~sband down the inland passage me to do this and I said," So I did but I didn't didn't, were sitting a story." who was Tommy and I paper didn't, so I put it away and one night we room and I said," Would trip?" Why don't you send it to "Motorboat" I said," You must have holes and he asked "Well," he said tell him and then Harry's read about our trip, our last summer said," a story of our cruise tell my husband it fell through in the living a story about, as far as Clemtoo 011 I can't write just did it at horne and didn't magazine me to write and I had a small cabin cruiser, down the coast, "try." and he wanted in your head." Well I sent it and we had different you like to When he read it, he in New York?" " Oh," And he says," It's good." correspondence back and forth on it. Catherine Spencer continued I had to do a little page 2~ changing, So from then on in I started the writing finally to write I got it in 'Motorboat' stories. part of it but anyway my husband paper and we fell in love and were married wanted more but nothing paper up in Hazelton, Omineca Harold, happened. That's how I got in came to work in the same and lost a little boy and Then this chance came to buy this it was just a four page tabloid it was called called election and a federal "If you don't buy it," he says, be the end of the Omineca to Terrace that's all, there wasn't hundred people. and so he said, to say yes but we said yes on a condition that we never did know why we "We will buy the paper but we won't have time. So it made it sort of, well we had was just something said it but we said, election election "I'm going to close the doors and that'll Harold!" to say yes or no so we decided and the condition the then and it was run by an old man called Shuck Saul who was quite a character·-and so it was double There was a provincial magazine. if we can move it in Hazelton." a thing here except it down It was intuition between four and five in Terrace. Was that at Nev Hazelton? That was at New Hazelton. and so he said O.K. It had been moved up from Hazelton So after the election in the August was over and all the to do, we moved it down in here of course from then on Terrace started Hazelton last week and Hazelton has not changed of fact it's gone backwards and when "Where did we get the intuition?" Perry I don't know if you remember of 1949 and started one bit. Because that's what it was. We we got sort of scared off by Harry Harry Perry, he was speaker "Hon't go into real estate,put Which we did and so we bought As a matter today I think, house and he owned the Daily News and he owned the Prince and he said, here and to grow and you know I was in I look at Terrace didn't have quite enough of it because in 1912 all tour money all the machinery and rented of the George paper into machinery." a place and the paper grew and it grew and we were busy and we had 00 start hiring help and the story, It was fantastic the growth because of a paper the town started is really quite interesting. to grow at the same time. Catherine Spencer continued Celulose has the first tree, farm tree license page 3 • Columbia first farm tree license What year vou1d '51 I think you know that and they came just after. \ that be? it was. Well now Alcan here just as everything was going just sort of snow balled. came in,in the community order to bring It never was a boom town. decided because south, Yes this is very interesting indeed. because He was a character, him. Alan pulp mill and this of we could use the road and so could they built the road, highway we have roads to the north, Omineca Haro1d You could never oh to spill the road up to the Nass in in the Nass area and they were very happy then of course So we got all the time you see and then the logs out to the Watson course was a great advantage the people '51, '52. ahead and from then on everything call it a boom town but it kept growing of course government, about this and 25 to Kitimat. east and west. I am very interested in the there vas o1d Chuck Sau1. a real character. Well I'd like to tell you about I wish I had got his story but I didn't know enough, know what I know today, I wis~ I knew his story because here, now most of his advertising down here was because So now he come down and the reason we wanted most of the advertising I didn't the pa~er he had in his paper he go~ fL:-0nt_'I'errac.e. Now the Hazel tons were all in a mad mood at him because he moved from Old Hazelton the Canadian National .. to New Town when the GTP, that was that was GTP then, railroad Old Town and went to New Town so nobody wanted, advertising and there was a feuding, he was always feuding with somebody type of man he was and he was funny. back on afterwar~s. -' Chuck would the would give him any they always were feuding and else you know and this was the Some of his papers I've looked As I said most of the ads came from Terrace at the end of the month, came down to collect went passed come down here to collect, and he always the money· for his ads but he always got drunk and they had to always pretty near pour him on the train to get him home you know and this was the way he was. He ended in jail for one Catherine Spencer in one instance full story, wrong, continued page 4 for something that which he did, and I can't, I was sorry about. if he didn't have a place he'd put the rooster that's a rooster. I didn't get the But when there was anything in, if he had a hole in now there in the paper is there a cut, see that cut there It's an old fashioned cut, see it on top of those two books right here. es I see. Oh there Well he put that in, no caption, no nothing, and one time I was down in Vancouver Norm Hacking? Know Norm? do you know anything just to fill the space and Norm Hacking was .. met And Norm says to me, "Oh the Omineca about that Omineca Harold? Harold, Isn't that the one that always run that rooster?" remembering it and had it in the paper but Chuck was a real character. They used to get the paper So I did a story on it, about Norm in the drugstore in Prince Rupert had many a laugh over it because he wouldn't anything, made up all his stories he did all his setting, all his setting stop for mistakes right on the long part and pushed was no corrections made and paragraphs and or and did it threw and there are every which place and then there was blank pages but he got the paper out and we got a kick out of him. I remember he helped us with it and he said, nothing, we don't have to check them, we don't stop for anything." And he got a whole, the whole the first time we put the paper out " Now, we're paragraph, was down here and up here was a different mixed up and I says to Tommy, at me and I said, so embarrassed not stopping I mean the whole column and what all, it was all " Stop the press." And Saul looked " We can't run the story like that." because for anything, it was a real bad mistake And he was and you couldn't have run it, so we had to correct it but that's the way he was, he didn't care if there were mistakes or not but he was a grand old fellow and he's since passed all by himself. away and he worked hard, His wife was his right hand man. Wbat did he 100k 1ike? put out a paper Catherin Spencer continued page 5 Oh he was a little small person. Could you describe him to me? He was a little squatty, a little squatty fellow and round and you know plump and well half the time he was drunk I think because was always afraid mood because that I would Tommy see him when he was in this drunk he'd be kind of nasty but I never did see him that way. He was just a bustling around. He'd even show you how to make the paste, you had to make it exactly the wrappers and all this. the way he made the paste for pasting He was a funny little but he did it his way and if nobody fellow really and liked it they didn't have to like it,that was just his way of doing it. But he got tired and so he had to quit and we went on from there. Where did he come from? , What was his previous Not too much about his history. history? Do you know? He was from the east I think, somewhere and I think he came out and I think one time he did work on the coast and I think in Prince Rupert, not for very long. out with him and I never really did get his story which very unhappy about afterwards story really, there were many things to run a newspaper although because all by yourself, and you have no thoughts came I was always it would have made such a good that I could have got but starting your time is completely of what you would I saved many antidotes His brother taken like later on you know and things. 8e came out, the paper came out once a week? Once a week, yes it was a weekly. Have you ever seen that cartoon, the newspaper from Old Hazelton? All during my regime that Degfeild too. drew of him carting Catherine Spencer Yes, I have continued page 6 it. You have the cartoon? Yes. I have a picture. Well I have a. . Wigs O'Nei1 gave me a post card. It's a post card I've got. I yonder vho has the origina1? I have, I think it's the original I have, I think it's the original post card. No I have a post card but I don't knov vho has the origina1 it vi11 be a bigger thing. Oh yes, I don't know neither, You've never anyyhere I have the post card. seen, don't knov vhere are you? cartoon, I've been trying any other Degfei1d cartoons from to trace these. --~----------~------------------~~~------------------~ No I don't think there were any others. He used to do a10t up in that area. But I don't think there were any others have seen them because Yes. """"""'--"- ..' in the paper because that was a very good one. I would Catherine Spencer page 7 continued ~ I used it in one of my papers I would be most taking Saul's interested newspaper once because as a matter as an example it was really very good. a fact if you could tell me, of the one you took over. How did you get out? What was the machinery? What was the purpose of getting operation wasn't What was the process? out a newspaper? That was a pioneer it? Yes. What was the machinery? quite different How did it get put together? You know it's nowadays. Well this is another thing I'm sorry about because there that must have come up in a river boat there's equipment 'cause I know it. I have an old oak desk that I'm sure came up on a river boat and if I put my coffee cup on that oak desk by golly he was right after me you know, this is the first week. Today my oak desk stands very proudly and I'm very proud of the fact that it's in the Fort St. James .. that Ruth Halixy editor of the Fort St. James Calidonia desk but how they brought a regular line-a-type and her husband's Currier the publisher and I gave her the old oak those line-a-types, he had one line-a-type, but alot of his stories were hand set, you know hand set with hand typed set you know. So what would be the distinction and the hand setting, I mean would Yea, well he'd probably advertisements between settjng they just run out of type or what? do the bigger parts with hand, by hand for and for heads he'd do that by hand and for straight matter he'd do it on the line-a-type, It was a pretty the line-a-type old fashioned that would be the way it was. line-a-type machine wasn't it? Catherine Spencer continued Well yes was it ever, cute story. controlled a e I must tell you that sir this is kind of a That line-a-type had to be, it was gas, it had to be by gas to make the pot, to melt the metal so every morning 8 we had to get up between in the pot and five and six o'clock to pump this pump like you do a one of these old gas lamps to get it going and it took about two hours down so that the line-a-type for the metal to heat, could be used and we had to spend the longest time and one day Harry Perry carne through, a little afraid not going to own the Omineca And I would Harold, say to Tommy, " He's he's not going to get his foot So he carne in one day and he said," Have you still got that gas pump?" and I said, get an electric one?" we can afford " Yes" and he said, and I said, " We'll it, to get an electric can't have that." He says, write you a check." for this electric dollars and I was always of Harry Perry that he was going to get his foot in and own all the newspapers. in here." to soften get an electric one." "Well" he says, " You got to have an electric So he writes pot. " Why don't you one when "You one, I'll me a check for three hundred dollars I still have the check for three hundred in my treasures. I never cashed it. Later we got an electric pot on our own. It's nearly that same line-a-type in Joe's Printers down here. He still uses it. is still operating With the pump? No not the pump no we got an electric after, pot ourselves quick, not long the Saul er Perry deal. How old would that be, that line-a-type I don't know, it's a number machine? five I and I don't know how old it is, I wish I did know. That, the line-a-type that's then and the, plus the hand set, the hand tYDe, .•.... the basis of you newspaper?_ Except for the press that ran it off and that was a Platinum, Platinum press, a low Platinum press and it only ran off hand fed, one page Catherine Spencer continued page 9 at a time, then you'd have to fold it and do the other page, then fold it back and do the other page and fold it back and do the other page and it was a four page tabloid and the circulation at that time was about four hundred. And hov did you ink it? Well it had an ink roller, there was a place to ink it. Did the ro11er, ink it by hand? No, you didn't no, no there was an ink roller with it. You just ro11ed it through? It, you rolled it through And it, yes. the type vas on a sort of f1at bed? It was on a flat bed, it was a, yes that's right. plates called you know, the set up there. You had the paper, that? They're did the paper a11 arrive cut and everything 1ike Did you order it a11 ... Yes. That vou1d come in. And we'd just run it through. started to grow, of us trying But then of course our circulation our advertising to get these things we had and it snow balled, years. to grow and here'S the two and the more it grew the more pages just snow balled But we had the most wonderful work, our working started and we had to get staff. staff all through the years of our There was one boy, John Chapman, was with Catherine Spencer continued page 10. us the first year in '51 we hired him as a press man and he was with me when he retired, when I retired in '69 because I had to retire more or less because I sold out in '66 when off set came in you see and all my machinery was hot metal and it was obsolete, could be thrown out the back door and in order to start over again, didn't have that kind of vim and vigor you know. paper by this time up to a eighteen and twenty is you know the big size and had forty-one I just I had brought page broad hundred the sheet which circulation when I retired. Sti11 using the same o1d 1ine-a-type machine? No, no, no this was, we had by this time gone into off set, I sold it in '66 but I remained three years publisher according 'til '69 so I was with and then I retired but the thrill, to the contract for it in off set for three years when my time was up according I guess the one thrill to the contract of my life was going down and seeing a twenty page paper of my very own with my name, Catherine M. Fraser publisher on it. Being printed it come off a big Gos press, twenty colors circulation and forty-one hundred when I was seven-teen. "No it couldn't in Prince Rupert I watched pages all at one time in two and here I had started there I anyone had ever told me I would have said, be." When you took the paper over from Sau1 it vas four hundred? Four hundred and they weren't payed up neither. Where vas it going at that time? Just the little places around, than Smithers and Terrace little places around, they weren't payed up, I became out of circulation. What's an ABC paper Where . not too far away, not any further and Hazelton Cedarvale did it reach? and Kitwanga and the you know but alot of his where on there but an ABC paper afterwards, which is Catherine Spencer Audited Bureau What's that mean? Well belonging of Circulation, to that means firm that the national to warrant stories is Haze1ton e by a that the figures and they don't hesitate advertising to take if you have it you see and this is why it's good to of those very ear1y days, you weren't very 10ng of course. No we brought the whole paper down in one great big trUCk, one great big truck we brought the paper down in and then we had a hard time a place to put it but we found an old place that was an old restaurant, it still had the booth visit from Rupert, always figures circulation to it. Any other finding is recognized and then you get the national the circulation belong you have an audited advertiser that you give are correct the figure page 11 continued serving machinery you know we had so many friends coffee in these booths in the middle it was the Mealie in it and we had more visitors had two or three presses. then, had to have We waited and waited press in. So we got all prepared down and says, and said, press I think So we had to have a "The press is here!" "That's not a newspaper and the next morning breakfast and I go tearing and he came up, looked at it press." sort of, kind of press for something but we ripped up to get the the night before Tommy was down having We for this press to about that size, and it was insured, it taken out and all the bottom in comes the press. a Mealie I think that was the one. come and then we got news that it had come. big plate glass window , along the side with all the and then we ordered we ordered there and I was It turned out to be some up in the north country, I don't know, they sent the wrong thing and there was this all wide open space and the driver we got out press. Joe MCNottin of the transfer One of our presses was so mad he quit. is sitting Eventually out right now in, I told you about, he still has our line-a-type, he got Catherine Spencer continued the job printing page 12 shop that belonged to our paper and he has it out in his yard, he has a big area for sort of farm area, just out of the limits here and he's going to put flowers and greenery to spray paint it gold and he's going and, he's just been waiting for all the ink and goo to wash off and then that's what he's going to do. of course we were very lucky started to really was growing. 'cause when the Cellulose boom and it seems people You'd be asked the question had one bank, but this is how it was. Bank and people were sharing so in the night, one night believe sneaked in in the night. night for the next bank. lets see. This one bank was the Royal about this part growing you see, it or not, the Bank of Nova Scotia in, in the Now I think we have all, every bank. company. And how many finance How companies, I said to one of them one day, I said, " What do you know that I don't know because here?" And he just laughed. ahead and I was trying say why Terrace many, many times and we in told us and they were Five banks. Every finance came in things They had the place all set for it, it was a friend of ours and he never many banks are there? things could never But why are you But he did know that this area is going to convince these Northwest publications that it was but they were being hard to convince. Tell me, when you moved down with the press, you came to Terrace really was it, you weren't Oh no, no we were living of the shop in Prince in Prince Rupert So that's where you worked was the Omineca Rupert. liying My husband in Terrace? was superintendent at the time. in the business, the first one you owned Harold? Oh yes, we were just working Was that operated Oh yes. that vas the fjrsttime for the Prince Rupert Daily News. the same kind of way say with the press and everything? Well no, they had bigger press, they were a daily you see Catherine Spencer continued and they had a bigger press, page 13.. a Web press they called it and the Web press runs all the pages off at once and comes out folded Same line-a-type type of business Oh line-a-types were exactly So Saul was doing everything All himself, though? the same. himself? the only thing that he didn't about his gal darn line-a-type someone know, he didn't and he was always phoning to come up and fix his line-a-type, and they always sent Tommy, see because it together again. became acquainted something know anything up to get would go wrong that's why he knew Tommy so well you see and that's when he used to start talking the paper, you see. to Tommy about buying Tommy could take a line-a-type He knew everything about apart and put it and that's how we really. Well then the set up that you had when you started in Terrace, jt was just the two of you, you didn't have any help? None at all. No, like paper boys or anything or how would like that would distribute you get it around? Oh all through the mail. And wbo was the edjtor and who was the printer? Well there was only the two of us and so we called Tommy and I was the editor. YO]] paper both yorked on the line a type, I suppose? the publisher Catherine Spencer No, no I wasn't continued page 14 that shop at all as a matter when I ever got into the back shop cutter once and I wasn't I was the writer, supposed 'cause I got my finger concerned We worked a printer days, today now young girls are setting proofread that's everything, paper, news from? a certain on it but was a printer on instruments even then mistakes in those just like would go through We but not they don't bother. go back here for a moment, He would have a certain amount together and I all and they don't proof read or anything. like they do today, In Saul's in, I fed the press and I did all the advertising got all the ads and I made up ads. as far as the printing on the to be in the back shop at all. I kept all the copy coming and I did all the circulation typewriters of fact I got in trouble amount of news from outside where would he get his of advertising, in the world he'd have I suppose? He did do that, yes he did do that. How would he get that news? I don't know how he got that, yes I think how it got through, I'm not too sure because some of his very early papers. in these small towns, know but the reason Press but he had world news in You see these small papers started there was one even up here at Kitsilush they started grow and a newspaper, was because if you wanted land, it had to be advertised the back papers it was Canadian this area started to buy property in the closest you paper. to or a piece of Well those papers, of Saul's were just full of ads, just full of ads for sale ads for property and so this is where and this is why they opened a paper. the newspaper It was the money part of it. they made their money They could care less about they were making you see. So all this terrible sto:r?ies.l.. type that came out was just but did he have Catherine Spencer continued page 15 ~ehiah~sh~~a~tbeiesp~onesaadhbehadphone the hospital the police and I wasn't very enthused difficult to get people to talk there. When you came down to Terrace what ... Oh well everybody here, the peoples co-operated paper because we made with it up there, it the peoples paper, we said," paper." put in it you bring it in to us and we never missed today. something If they don't think and this is wrong because hasn't grown It's your paper, whatever he was or how small the little else, to him it meant so it went it's very you want to anybody. It item might mean to somebody in and this is what happens important, this is still really to the city size yet and everybody the other person's it was very this was the, our paper then, This is the peoples didn't matter and he'd phone it doesn't go in a small town. It likes to know what been doing and this sort of thing. It isn't got to the big city style paper yet and so it's being missed that way by the old timers. So if there was any big event that happened 1ike a fire, or a f100d or something a specia1 1ike that of course you'd write co1umn about that sort of thing that wou1d be happening? Oh yes. And it came out once a yeek? Well we changed it a couple What day of the week did it come out? of times, a Wednesday and a Thursday were the days. Two days? No, no just one day but at one time it was a Wednesday another time it was a Thursday. you see and This had to do with advertising catherine Spencer continued and how it helped I suppose page 16 our advertisers the big newspapers to change from Vancouver Oh they do now you know, they're up all right, Weeks the day. hard1y up every day. ever come up here? Oh they did come they got them. 1ater? Yes, but then people used to say to me, the news, world wide news?" is, it's a community I said, area paper, ••Why don't you let, put ••This isn't what our paper you get your big papers tell you the world wide news and so does the radio." and they Course radio came in after we were here but I never felt there was, that hurt us one little bit in fact we complimented each other and we felt that way. The radio wou1d bring That's the wor1d news? right and we felt that way about it so but you were just saying that you had just returned from the Nass, that Nass, bridge I was talking that the forestry, day and I said, ••We build like that one." to the forestry ••You don't build many bridges all kind of bridges." The things little Nass And I says, that that bridge do you?" man the other He says, ••Yea, but not a bridge is going to do. This new one you mean? The new one, the one that's going Now so Terrace, to open officially on Sunday. the year that you first came to Terrace 1949 And te11 me what Terrace 100ked 1ike. ~ was? Catherine Spencer continued page 17 Well it was a very small place really dwindled because I can say to about four hundred, five hundred people and why I say between dwindled it was an army camp and being got the airport in here. the road was finished and Prince Rupert because and in an army camp, we States government in here also between here of that but it was really by the time we got here it was just a small country Was very few people around rackety The building buildings. four hundred why we got an airport by the United had is that part of that during the war, That's the population town and that's and a few stores we stayed all it was. and just old rickety, in was the ricketiest old place you ever saw and cold that winter. We slept in sleeping bags and couldn't keep warm, cold and none of the houses were built for the, for the really it was small. it was terribly And what I admired Now we had a volunteer lot of firemen in those days was the fire department. fire department but I guess because built for the cold and and we seemed to have an awful of the cold weather and the boys were right on the job all the time but you know people with their cars would always get in the way. They'd be in the way and the police were after them all the time and I don't know how many editorials I wrote about this but I never could, out of the way. telling them, honorary member across my car. and you'd save the lives and eventually, I had to keep out of the way too. of course me They made me an of the fire department so I had fire department It was kind of cute. But it was really see them when there was a fire, coming and running I suppose Might I tried to tell them to keep right a small town out, running here from here and over there. it was much the same as back then. just before Dusty streets, yes, oh yes. But then the army came in and for a moment and transformed the war? the place, ~hen when the army left ••• they built their own buildings the place was full of army people and catherine Spencer continued page 18 They were back down to where they were again. Cellulose there, on the main street Well those Columbia those buildings are old army buildings. And the old peoples hospital up on the hill. And that's the old army hospital. What would they come in here for? Do you remember the army? Why they came in here? well there was a danger. I think of them coming They seemed down from the north cross roads and then of course they needed to build the road in but the streets seemed to blow. a kind of a joke over this. pile up in the middle were very dusty and the wind always of the street side because shop across civic centre and everybody family they were, in the 'till spring We· had one big community and it was a grand I mean we were all feeling and everybody we used to have an awful time with deadand all this but we never had trouble The Kercallies had been at it for years and they never let you down, they would be right there to help you out and everybody a really the street went to everything. the post office with the post masters. time the snow would so those piles of snow stayed But the people were friendly. lines, catching off the other and you could never see across came again. I remember sweeping we had no means at all of snow removal and we never saw the barber just one big happy and on to the be clear and we always made And in the winter in those days it was to costly co-operated. the road and they had and they were forever side of the street and ours would middle and they used it as a It blew off our side of the street other side of the street to the other to feel there was a danger nice feeling. all along and enjoyed it's getting bigger seemed to help everybody A very friendly friendly this and as it grew, else so it was town. I felt this it grew friendly. and we don't know the people, Now all the people Catherine Spencer continued ~age 19 now like we used to know them. beautiful It's still a nice town. It's a very town. It's more so than it was probab1y. Oh yes because it's been cleared up quite a bit. It's paved. Paved and it's a very beautifu1 town and a mayor noy we have a young man that was retired and he's the perfect man for the job, he just went in lately feel we've got somebody so we we like right at the head of the government of the town, that's important of course was also born our M.L.A. very early and he was born here too I think because in Terrace, Was any of his fami1y, the Litt1es, Oh they were all here. Now wait a minute, he knows and then that's Dudley Little. here when you came? Mrs. Little I think had died. George Litt1e? George was here, oh George and I used to have many many a conversation. He was a kind of a founder of a11 this? He was the founder. Te11 me about him and how he founded it and a11 that sort of thing. Well it was near the turn of the 20th century ended his exploratory Kitimat treck inland from Kitimat, and he took up a preemption was carried that George Little he carne in from here and hued the first log that for the site of the what's the thriving town of Terrace Catherine today. Spencer continued page 20 He was the founder. but there was a similar it Terrace The town was to be called Littleton name so they had to change and it's quite obvious why because it so they called we have terraces if you'll notice bench land and that's why and he came from Ontario and he brought with him, at least he sent back for all those trees that line our boulevard beautiful trees. on main street They're up and he planted all Ontario on Lakelse avenue. trees and they've them when they were little saplings Those all grown you know. He had been up in the Yukon prior to that and went on the trails in '98 but he told me this story. came this way," and he said,"and down over this beautiful and knew," he said, the rainbow He said, eventually valley, in its setting of snow capped mountains "that I found the pot of gold at the foot of he was a rough, from some people who worked and I mean I think "I I stood on the bench land and looked on the banks of the Skeena River." felt and although he said, That's the way he tough man to work for I understand for him, it takes a pusher still he was a pusher you see to do things like this. To build a town. So he founded this town, he 1ay it out? Well yes he did, yes, that main street and Kaylum when they went to measure make it that wide and he insisted he wouldn't let them do anything how come we have that wide street of people in down town Lakelse it off they weren't there going to it was going to be that wide and else but make it that wide and that's there because he insisted. Alot don't know this and then he left park land, that park where the library is, is land that he left. The area above it is land that he left for park land and the area down at riverside is park land he left. How many acres did he preempt? Did he preempt the wh01e 1arge area? Yes he preempted a large area and another thing that he did do, there were other people came in like the Farnxes came in but they came Catherine Spencer into the Kaylum continued Valley page 21 I mean that's just down here you know where you came along the Kaylum River and but George was coming it all you see so he gives a piece of land to the Grand Trunk Pacific Railway in down here and that's why today that's to put our station where the station Course is because it's a better wou1dn't ahead of he gave them the land for that. site anyway, up here than down there, be much room down there. I don't know how it would have been, over that because there's different controversies we get alot of wind you know from the sweep of the river but it's the valley You know the vallies anyway are all around, We11 what was he doing? and we're going to get wind. like Kitimat What was his business Valley But when he came in here he just. No he was a builder actually too. when they came in? Oh he was a, he went to the Yukon to seek his fortune in gold. . . he was a builder. He wanted, to find a place that he could build. He was a builder. his dream. A place that he would His dream was to build. and he wanted to start it out right So when the rai1way He realized He yasn't came a10ng, when he had something. farming No he didn't cleared there farm. or anything He went That was call home from here. it was bound to come a10ng. He liked the valley. 1ike that? into the logging the land and all this and then of and had some of the sawmills he wanted right away. See he course he was into logging and all this sort of thing. Catherine Spencer continued page 22 ------------~----------------~, -----Yea he was a, he went in for logging and he made money logging then? ~r Oh yes. Did he have a mill? Yes. Yes he had a mill. And did he, float that, what.would it, go down the river on the boats he have, then when the railway came. and things like Yes it was his dream. I Do you have any stories Well he was a ruthless about him!. sort of a fellow and he, many people thought he was very mean and yet I never did find him that way to talk to. He left here and went up to Yellowknife more mining once and had an accident I think it was and did some and lost his leg and he came back here and so he had only one leg but he was as independent could be. If you ever opened in trouble you know. the door for George Little, He'd do it all himself as you'd be and no one was going to do it for him and some days he'd go along with crutches and no leg and another day he had a cane and he had his leg on and he was feeling better. Then I'd go in and talk to him and he had a house keeper and we'd sit and chat and I'd be writing notes down, I wrote a story on him once and every once and a while he'd reach little cupboard that was there and take out a bottle swig of it, put it in, look around, so cute with and have a little see if she was looking. He was it. What did he look like? What was his mannerisms? Was he a bjgman? Yes he was a big man, not as big as his son, Dudley. bigger in to a than, Dudley's a big man. Yes Dudley's catherine Spencer , continued page 23 Did he have much of a family? Yes he has two sons that live here, Dud and ... They all grew up here? They all grew up here, yes. His mother had died I think before we got here. He brought his wife? Oh yes. He brought his wife with him when he came here or he married I think he married afterwards, And then he brought up his family? And the family were all brought the first or second white about that. after? yes. up here. Dud I think was the, either child born in the valley, now I'm not sure But he was one of the first. Now what was the, the people that were in Terrace when you first came here, what was keeping them here? What yere they doing here? ir business? You know it's a strange nobody really thing. I never did ever really did know why Terrace ~ grew because along the line and I knew them all because know and of all the communities I used to sell subscriptions, they talked me into it for the Daily News as far as Prince used to go by train the line. and all stopped And Terrace and some farming. in all the little places was the poorest place but there was the logging place, F~ank's the Dairy, Darry. along it was the poorest and it was mostly And then of course their big Dairy of course, George, logging was done the Franks had they Catherine Spencer continued page • Before it was washed away. Yes but only part of it was washed and it's still going 24 strong away, they really of course. early days it was a strawberry did very well And it's actually in the Remo strawberries were really country. well known. Remo? Is just the name? Remo's just out of here. He was a chap who 1ived here? ~----------~------------------ No, no I mean it's a little settlement. Remo? Just near here. REM O? Yes. It's on this side? Yes but it's just a small settlement grow beautiful here but they can't afford costs too much for pickers because but it's the same here. It's too bad We do have apples and cherries and that but not to many great eXtent. industry to sell them, I mean it and this sort of thing. the soil is ideal for that. It's a, logging but now we have a few, you know few secondary are coming in. Making Now you have things is the main industries pipes and I can't think of all of them. to do with roads. Strawberries Catherine Yes· Spencer continued ,page 25 CUlverts. Yes, we11 it's sti11 a cross roads of course. Well this isn't what I always think. that I feel Terrace is because it's a hub, because the north, south, east and west. The only reason, I think it is. It was only just across opened It's opening Allisharm. way out except and it's a paradise wealth of untapped up ... None of these places had a minerals, have heard far, it's some five hundred of potential. there's copper of and it bring, what's miles closer than going by way of the Alaska Highway. more close to, and it will eventually up all of the Alaska Anchorage, Sitcup, Panhandle Petersburg, open up a whole new network get together. to Watson It brings and silver This small bridge like Ketchecan, It'll to and that's how much it meant to and Herb. real hard for a good, many years to bring it about. aside a bit if they're of linking you know. of commerce the Co1umbia the, how of roads that allow the communities us and that's why our chamber The Ce11u1ose, area it that much mean the beginning and Scagway It Lake in the Yukon like all the roads will, Hanes potential. Well Stuart and gold and it's in the midst of the famous Casiar Asbestus which alot of people only on that Saturday, the river but it's opening by the water that's up an astounding never did have a way out. will, untold of the roads to Now this little bridge going to be, it's going to be officially July the eighth the one reason Ce11u1ose peop1e, they'11 going to 1et this be approved is going to be, have to be a highway Herb worked have to step because ther~ there and you can't mix a highyay pnd 1ogging. I know. This is where the difficulty you can't, we can go up on weekends you're taking a chance, the logs, the logging going to be I guess because you see, weekends are open but if you go any other time of the week because trucks have the right of way. Catherine Spencer You couldn't Although continued page 26 have a big truck, it's a government I've been in, out in the daytime. road of course. les but they have to make up their minds, one way or the other. I don't know how this is going it at all . • • •they're going to be there for years as far as I can see. a great big bottle says, n to effect neck in the whole Oh sure development is necessary.n come about is not satisfactory this and the Nass Valley. ••• the Indians But they way it's all inaudible , I think ? Ism as I see. are people there and their story I know the stor in many ways Columbia as far as I'm really I1v!Dq thQr~ up there? athize with their stor That was a bi Take inaudible Did you hear some of their stories in here? thing because It's move wasn't What did it seem like when the it? come? .Columbia How ? What About the same time as Alcan? Ah yes, it was 1951 I think. It was, it was a very big thing and at that time a very wonderful thing. It was A man in the background: three or four inaudible of finance '51 wasn't Oh they came in earlier names spoken) Cathy, it? about '50, Steve Kenney he was the minister and forest. Yes well some of them came in ahead. When was it the road was pushed Well anyway. through to the Nass? too? Oh yes they started pushing the road through. At that time Catherine Spencer continued Man in the background page 27 ( possibley Tommy): In '58. Was it '58? In a small newspaper and publishers a chance of course, get advantages people in small newspapers over bigger at what we get let's say. came to town, he came especially papers you wouldn't down here but we went up as the chamber of commerce chamber of commerce reporter and the works you see and he was Seemore off the point he said, and it was really " Oh you're taking man and we all chatted get Now the Lord Mayor of London to see the aluminum and publisher like editors company, plant, and I was the of the paper and photographer funny, walked my picture." Hard. and He walked right up to me and He was a very friendly with him for quite awhile and then found that we had a whole hour to spend with him because the other plane hadn't arrived So we phoned in to take him down to Kitimat my friends up and said, of London for tea?" " How would yet. you like to have the Lord Mayor And she just about flipped was Mrs. Lina Moo, who was, her husband Columbia Cellulose one of and a good friend her lid and that at that time was a Hazelton of mine. As we're down there we go to tea and we had a very nice time and then we came up to get the plane. wanted And he was going to go up of course drive up." to get in the other car and the women 'cause he was there so I said, And then he decided to not to go in the other car and come with me. So I drove the Lord Mayor of London Well we chatted for quite awhile to London, forget don't quite sincere all through and he said, look me up." up to the plane. " If you ever come "And I'll do my best." He was about that and I did and I looked him up and I went Mansion through the house Terrace airport came through " Well I'll House all through of lords, in a little the house of commons just every place. Just meeting tiny town like this. in the same manner and all him at Now Prince and we as newspaper people Philip and they Catherine Spencer continued page 28 came up from the south on this one, went through but of course we didn't stopped we stopped meet him, we just followed and followed see him and it was interesting was going on. them change Stopped everything they were going him through too. everybody, around to see one poured in the thielE of i~ ar~ they come you see Cellulose groups of people and people crossed things you know and it came that happened towns. t you? was first starting the United and all around. all the time and of course one before Boon was here and nice and well then of course, when from allover from Mexico from Narvada. and they never poured in the thick of it and we see, you know. Daniel once and he was real friendly and made the first inget and him with one from Quebec in a small towns that you don't see in larger We're in what find out all the details So these are the little You're right But we did He was so interested so they had to pour it and hold their fingers down O.K. him, where he the plant. so they dropped to just present Oh no no he wanted the plant with him up here. States. They had Doctors and lawyers They were entertaining I was always included because them I was a friend of the superintendent you see and besides They got plenty in those days and we kept pretty well of publicity up with it all the time. pulse of the people, I don't know, we kept, kept I think the the pulse of the country, as I look back on my papers, whole history my paper. of Terrace they liked the publicity. I can write from the whole thing and a whole, I could write the '49 'til '69 from the front page of Just the front page alone and I'm proud of the paper I put out but I'm not proud of it today. That's neither like we did and they don't but they don't know the people know that it should be still kept a small, what the people It's part of just not sour grapes small town paper. That's want. a chain of papers now isn't it? It's part of a chain,yes. What have you to do with Ruperts deve10ped inaudib1e ? Have Catherine Spencer Rupert hasn't hasn't continued developed. page 29 I'm afraid I must say so because got very much room for development you see and there is very little pulp mill and they've they developed at all. I mean Hazelton that's really grown. right from scratch hasn't. you say? Supposed to be perfect I mean I don't say they haven't Rupert has but Terrace Now Kitimat Perfect is man made, I mean is a, one it was built city right off the bat. I mean they . .free trips like I went to Expo in January putting they got the mill down there too you see and extent. and a perfect it's on an island room mind you Watson, got another to a certain because Rupert when they were just it up you know along with other newspaper people and we were told the story and we came back and told it in our papers you see and kept our fingers crossed it was snow and plastic that what we told was the truth because allover there like what they said. everything However and there was nothing it was just the way they said it and it was beautiful, I went back guests there for a couple a days there at the. What's the popu1ation Well about seventeen We're not really ~at of Terrace thousand, in August of course and we're noy? that includes part of the town but we're Thornhill out here though. in the area, yes. about, when you first came, what was the area, how many peop1e? In Thornhill? No, no in In Terrace? Oh about four hundred. Between four and five I would Catherine Spencer continued page 30 say. What is Thornhi11? (Tommy):It's this side of the river. Yea. But what is it? I~ it a development? Tommy: It's not incorporated. It's not incorporated~ Oh no, it's nothing right now. They're trying to incorporate it you know and you know what happened was these are people who wanted to come out here, build homes where they could get away with, the high taxes. O.K. fine they got away from the high taxes all right but then they find they haven't haven't got the services a fire well there's no fire engine like the rest of the people You really got the conveniences, that they need, that's out here and so they will eventually Yes you can't, from they I mean if they had, there's all because it can't get have to incorporate, pay taxes in town will. can't get away from it. can't get around, run away from it. It's going to catch up with you. I suppose it's, it's p1easant out here. Oh yea, I, yes it's really nice, But wou1d of it joining it, is it, chance It's a nice p1ace to 1ive? it's nice and quiet. Terrace or wou1d it be Catherine Spencer a separate thing? continued page 31 Well it could join. It could join. Then the taxes wou1d go up, right then. ,.. Depending, depending. Tommy: Basically They have their own. I think they'll I think it will be a suburb Oh yes sure. , have to go with Terrace. sort of deal you know. You t01d me about, oh yes you t01d me about how it was that your father was. Oh I don't know. Maybe I'd better years of being a newspaper It seems hectic work doesn't It's hectic work, ago, she said, woman not. I have enjoyed ••You'll it? be sorry some day." of a nervous It's pressure work. breakdown No matter you're told me years And I was I mean I was and just because what whether only put out once a week or whether for whatever my and very much indeed. it's very, yes it is and my mother on the verge there anyway Anyway of the pressure. it's a small weekly that's it's the Daily and the pressure's doing and the number of people you have doing for you. And \t seem though you're working awfu11y hard for re1ative1y 1itt1e .return. .!l_ Oh yes, yes because we were putting everything we made back into Catherine Spencer continued it you see so we really weren't the staff that I had working wonderful wonderful a newspaper woman think that's money but I must say that with me all through staff and I've enjoyed Terrace Well there's an awful a book about of being it so I I've had a very happy and to me Terrace we like it or not I guess the years was a every minute and so I'm going to write about all I can tell you. and I've enjoyed whether making life is going to still go ahead it'll go ahead. lot of room for expansion and it won't necessarily _spoil. I hope it doesn't I don't think No, because spoil that's it necessarily will. it's a beautiful It isn't over populated part of the world around You know it's still wilderness There's all. to be in. here at all, like the Fraser Valley. all around still lots of wild around you. you. Quiet places to go and things, and that sort of thing so it's a very happy place to live. This was out very bad winter we were in Arizona Mexico but we weren't here for the winter, so we were away for the winter most snow, most snow they've Have you had much contact but this is the ever had for many years. with the Nass? It's a strange place up there. Yes but I like that part of the country. It's very beautiful. It's a very beautiful part of the country used to live in Ross Wood and so Ross Wood and I have had a friend is part way up there about Catherine 34 miles Spencer page 33.- continued and I know quite a bit of that area. it alot and right up to the Nass. I like it. been to the opening of their churches they had a little, you didn't the Nass did you up there. And of course and anything see the foot bridge At Greenville. Canyon City, did you see that? and we had pictures I've been up and down Well I've that goes on and that went across No you wouldn't I was at the opening see it. of that and a full page on that. When did that happen? In. . . Was that a ear or two a o? Not too awfully long ago, I've forgotten which year it was. wi~hout that bridge. It must have been Oh yes it was a very rough, The river of course now it was a very rough spot. . It's not that bad all the time. That just happened there a few years Oh yes, natives themselves The themse1ves? Put on a wonderful show. ago? too and they were so proud. We had a grand time. wrote the story and they were very happy. things Took pictures and But we go to any of their that they have like that. me uite some time to get to know the Nass. This is et to ta1k to them in the vi11a e, I_noticed now that I haven't been ab1e to contact with.